Interesting Japanese group of 11

fukuoka · July 31, 2012

Appears to be an authentic set, but yet another example of a medal bar with misplaced medals. (The 1928 SE should be the third one from the left, not in the 6th spot.) It seems that despite the official pamphlet that comes with every medal/order awarded, people didn't always follow the instructions closely--especially when concerned with the items outside of the Big Three Orders.

JapanX · July 31, 2012

Yes, misplaced medals ...

Migrant foreign orders (sometimes they are before japanese medals, sometimes after) ...

We see this strange instability even on chests of high-ranking officers!

Only three Japanese orders show stability.

Usually, when classes of three orders are unequal, we see that orders arranged by class seniority.

When all orders have same class, we see this order Golden kite/Rising sun/Sacred Treasure.

fukuoka · July 31, 2012

Right, Nick. The order has been set, but even so, there are so many variations we can see in period photos.

But the orders are usually correct. And what you said about the class seniority is the official way of wearing them.

Cheers,

Rich

JapanX · August 21, 2012

Another interesting (and promising ) bar

JapanX · August 21, 2012

JapanX · August 21, 2012

fukuoka · August 23, 2012

Promising for what? To be split up by the next seller? A 1928 SE heading the group and a ST bringing up the rear???

This group SHOULD be dismantled.

Although I have seen small violations in the order the medals were placed in, I've never seen a legitimate group with an ST at the back. Nick, any of those pics in your files?

JapanX · August 23, 2012

Rich, take a good look and you will see that 6 medals belong to one bar

Orders are from right time period and I really like the ribbons look (similar wear on obverse and similar "fresh" look on reverse).

Only Showa medal looks out-of-place.

Something happened with this bar...

Looks like someone misplaced Sacred Treasure (it`s really on the loose) and put Showa (it looks oddly new compare to the other medals) on the first place.

Anyway, I think this is actually hanger for 6 medals

But someone thought differently :lol:

This group SHOULD be dismantled.

I am sure it will be :lol:

I've never seen a legitimate group with an ST at the back.

Same here.

Cheers,

Nick

Edited August 23, 2012 by JapanX

fukuoka · August 25, 2012

Well, I won that bar on Yahoo JP, so I can take a closer look at it. I bought it for resale, and if it looks to be original, as you suspect, I won't break it up.

Cheers,

Rich

JapanX · August 25, 2012

Well, I won that bar on Yahoo JP, so I can take a closer look at it.

Cool!

Maybe even some kind photo report?

Old look vs. New one (after putting treasure at the first place and getting off the Showa piece)

Cheers,

Nick

fukuoka · August 26, 2012

Nick, as is often the case, you were right. My initial skepticism began when I saw the Boxer with a WW1 medal, something I don't think I've seen before. Of course, it is certainly possible, only 20 years separating them. In addition, come to think of it, I rarely see Boxers in medal bars--probably because people take them out of the sets, being so valuable.

I examined the medal bar and all the medals belong together, with the possible exception of the 1928 SE. The latter has threads on the reverse, and there is room for one more medal, but the ribbon wear is not the same. Since the 1928 medal went on the bar last, perhaps it wasn't secured as well and of course didn't have the years of wear as the others did. Since the soldier (sailor) was of advanced age, having participated in the Boxer Rebellion, maybe the 1928 was never worn on a uniform, just hastily added onto the bar after its use had been exhausted. Just some theories. Here are some pics, with the ST back where it belongs.

fukuoka · August 26, 2012

Nick, as is often the case, you were right. My initial skepticism began when I saw the Boxer with a WW1 medal, something I don't think I've seen before. Of course, it is certainly possible, only 20 years separating them. In addition, come to think of it, I rarely see Boxers in medal bars--probably because people take them out of the sets, being so valuable.

I examined the medal bar and all the medals belong together, with the possible exception of the 1928 SE. The latter has threads on the reverse, and there is room for one more medal, but the ribbon wear is not the same. Since the 1928 medal went on the bar last, perhaps it wasn't secured as well and of course didn't have the years of wear as the others did. Since the soldier (sailor) was of advanced age, having participated in the Boxer Rebellion, maybe the 1928 was never worn on a uniform, just hastily added onto the bar after its use had been exhausted. Just some theories. Here are some pics, with the ST back where it belongs.

JUST TRIED TO ATTACH PHOTOS. FILE TOO BIG...

JapanX · August 26, 2012

Hi Rich,

I completely agree with your scenario for Showa medal. Looks like next of kin work to me...

Also a strong argument for this bar is that triangle ribbon for sacred treasure order has worn spot on the left side (clear indication of how long this order was first in this bar).

Rich, please send photos to me and I'll post them tomorrow

Cheers,

Nick

Edited August 26, 2012 by JapanX

RobW · August 26, 2012

Hello Nick,

Are you saying that is most likely that this is a group of 6 with the 1928 Showa Enthronement a later add-on? The ribbons on the other six medals appears consistent. Does the lack of the 1915 Taisho Enthronement medal raise any flags?

A nice group it is.

Regards,

Rob

Edited August 26, 2012 by RobW

JapanX · August 26, 2012

Hello Rob,

Are you saying that is most likely that this is a group of 6 with the 1928 Showa Enthronement a later add-on?

Yes.

Does the lack of the 1915 Taisho Enthronement medal raise any flags?

It's unusual, but not awfully unusual.

By the way, red cross medal is missing too

Regards,

Nick

fukuoka · August 26, 2012

Yes, the RC medal--good point. Perhaps this scenario: RC medal was part of the original group, but then he was awarded the Showa medal. Having no room for the latter, he (or someone later) removed the RC to make room for a 'nicer' or 'newer' medal. But things didn't go smoothly during re-attachment. Maybe? The Showa medal has traces of threads on the back...