Imperial Russia You're not in Kansas any more! or Modern Imperial Russia Fakes

[JapanX]

Brian gonna love this one

[JapanX]

Painting

Mark

[Yankee]

Brian gonna love this one

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Nick are you 100% certain this is a bad apple. That dark red enamel is absolutely superb, same workmanship- construction wise as a museum piece. Your right I do love it

[JapanX]

Nick are you 100% certain this is a bad apple.

You better believe it

Why they can`t simply produce these babes?

[JapanX]

I have even better story for you today!

Check this out

This is original early Anna from the collection of Historical Museum in Moscow

[JapanX]

Now take a look at this piece

[JapanX]

But sometimes they are not using pictures of the originals

[Yankee]

Now take a look at this piece

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Buy with confidence & don't think about tomorrow is more accurate.

[Yankee]

Painting

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Mark

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What triped me is the two different colors of gold being used. They were big using pink/rose color gold and yellow to contrast, which is what this artist did. He did his homework . The 18th century style Saint Anne cross with the 19th century center is odd to say the least but the museum copy is brilliant .

[JapanX]

to say the least but the museum copy is brilliant .

They even sacrificed one "stone" for the sake of authenticity

[Yankee]

They even sacrificed one "stone" for the sake of authenticity

This reminds me of the James Bond movie with Roger Moore who switched the Faberge egg @ auction. Unlike the movie we never do learn who is behind this deception.

[JapanX]

Unlike the movie we never do learn who is behind this deception.

One thing is for certain - he is good with his hands

[Yankee]

One thing is for certain - he is good with his hands

And he's not even Russian

Maybe same crew are doing the A-H awards. Marked & unmarked Saint Stephens are croping up too. This order is much to scarce to see so many in such a short amount of time.

[paul wood]

Scarce but they do turn up and as they do not contain precious metal or stones much more scope for the faker.

Paul

[Yankee]

Scarce but they do turn up and as they do not contain precious metal or stones much more scope for the faker.

Paul

The silver-gilt ones I avoid like the plague. I think the silver-gilt examples are duplicates for the owner & the vast majority are post war copies for the collectors market. All the official ones should be in gold even the ones handed out in WWl. What baffles me are the unmarked gold ones. Perhaps in your job you come into contact with a good many over the years and it would be easy to sort them out or not necessarily the case.

[JapanX]

All the official ones should be in gold even the ones handed out in WWl.

Damn right!

What baffles me are the unmarked gold ones.

You are not alone

I think the silver-gilt examples are duplicates for the owner & the vast majority are post war copies for the collectors market.

Yes these (and bronze ones) could be privately ordered copies for day-to-day wear (+ very often cavaliers sold their official "gold with diamonds" orders and were using these as replacement )

Edited August 27, 2014 by JapanX

[paul wood]

Some originals Annas are in bronze-gilt and crystal. I am referring to the early pieces around Paul I's introduction in 1797, gold ones from that period should be treated with the utmost suspicion

Paul

[JapanX]

Paul, as far as I remember all orders (even order of this early type) that were issued by Chapter (Kapitul) were made in gold.

Bronze = private (contemporary) workshops

[larsb001]

Nick, as you know I don't concentrate on full size decorations and thus I wouldn't be the best to determine autencity although I have held a good number of items in my hands and discussed those with other serious collectors. But I would easily have been fooled by a number of these you have shown. Would you say that all items in these posts are recent made copies or would some of them qualify as contemporary (old) pieces made for daily wear or as replacement for lost originals - and thus just not official Chancelley/Chapter issued examples? It is widely known that replacement examples have been made in France, Germany, Italy, the Scandinavian countries etc., I have had a number of proven contemporary made items myself. Some shown here would be obvious fakes, others would actually resemble proven period replacement items.

Lars

Edited August 27, 2014 by larsb001

[JapanX]

Hi Lars,

these particular examples are modern fakes.

One on post #132 was offered for sal by one (quite famous) dealer about five or four years ago.

Now that`s where fun begins!

Piece in post #131 were brought to the (notorious) expert from State Historical Museum and he ...

said it`s 100% ok original piece

Edited August 27, 2014 by JapanX

[Yankee]

Hi Lars,

these particular examples are modern fakes.

One on post #132 was offered for sal by one (quite famous) dealer about five or four years ago.

Now that`s where fun begins!

Piece in post #131 were brought to the (notorious) expert from State Historical Museum and he ...

DSC05868.JPG

said it`s 100% ok original piece

This is all very disturbing that a few bad actors that are well positioned in the community would allow such pieces go through their hands and not say anything. Perhaps it could be conceivable that the fakes are so high grade that even they are missing it. After giving it a bit of thought there really are no options to stop the forgers unless the market crashes, gold goes to 10,000 an ounce. Until some serious measures are taken we should only expect continuation of quality fakes to flood the

market as long as the prices support it and the demand is there. Glade my books are safe from this plague................

dollars an ounce or harsh prison time.

[paul wood]

Nick,

Interesting, I have a friend in Flensburg who claims that some of the bronze-gilt early issues are actually Holstein-Gottorp pieces rather than Russian. I have only seen early gold and crystal pieces of Alexander Nevsky, so the large number of bronze/silver-gilt Anna pieces, and I am including pieces with long standing provenances including the ANS piece and several I handled in the 80's and 90's, are all privately made

Paul

[JapanX]

This is all very disturbing that a few bad actors that are well positioned in the community would allow such pieces go through their hands and not say anything.

The most terrible thing Lars, is that some of them take active part in manufacturing of these peices.

It`s like vertically integrated corporation

[JapanX]

Nick,

Interesting, I have a friend in Flensburg who claims that some of the bronze-gilt early issues are actually Holstein-Gottorp pieces rather than Russian. I have only seen early gold and crystal pieces of Alexander Nevsky, so the large number of bronze/silver-gilt Anna pieces, and I am including pieces with long standing provenances including the ANS piece and several I handled in the 80's and 90's, are all privately made

Paul

Well, let`s see

As we know russian Kapitul was very strict (back in these days) about order returning policy (after the death of cavalier)

Frankly I don`t think that they would care that much if their orders were made in bronze.

But indeed some of our coleagues say that at least some (or even majority!) of the Kapitul Anna`s from the early days were made in bronze alloy.

No hard proof (at least known to me) for both veiw points

Anyway, I bet you are already bored to death with all my mumbling, so let`s hit pictures

Kapitul Anna in gold

Edited August 28, 2014 by JapanX

[JapanX]

Gold