Azad Hind breast star - could this one be an original?

[Leclerc]

Dear friends,

I have been offered the following Azad Hind breast star. As I do not have a certified original one for comparison, I would be very grateful if you could tell me your opinion about it. Do you think it could be a real one or rather a fake?

Thank you very much.

P. Leclerc

[Chris Boonzaier]

Without being an expert on these... I dont like the pin, the hinge or the hook....

[Leclerc]

Without being an expert on these... I dont like the pin, the hinge or the hook....

Good point, I also had doubts about these.

[paul wood]

The Originals were made by Souval, who later used the dies to make replicas and concoct a few interesting variations, unless you have an award document backed piece it will be a later piece. If you had an orignal piece with an award document there would be people in India queueing to take off your hands.

Paul

[Ulsterman]

Apparently the original backing dies are in the British archives -as British MPs took them in 1945. Hence fakes are blank? As I recall Gordon Williamson remembered this @ 12 years ago on another forum far, far away.

[peter monahan]

I know that the actual medals were of surpassing crudity - looked as if they'd been cast out of old tire weights or fishing sinkers by a not-very-handy bazaar wallah. Possibly a reflection of the real opinion held by the 3rd Reich of their untermensch foreign volunteers.

I don't think I've ever seen a genuine star and maybe only 2-3 fakes in 35+ years of interest in all things Indian but the general consensus even 20 years ago was 'steer clear'. Because they are seen by Nazi & SS collectors as German decorations of surpassing rarity, some of the very many and in some cases very skilled fakers of that collecting field have had a go at making them up.

In other words, as Paul says, unless you have the award document AND a signed affidavit form the awardee, clutch wallet firmly in one hand and walk rapidly in another direction! :(

Edited October 17, 2012 by peter monahan

[Leclerc]

Thank you very much for the valuable information, Peter. Of course the seller has only the award itself and nothing else in relation with it... I will stay away from it.

[peter monahan]

Leclerc

I hate to sound like a naysayer so often, but spent 2 decades worth of Saturdays hanging about medal shows and medal shops and over and over watched guys plunk down big bucks for something they wanted desperately to be 'real', even when the evidence to the contrary seemed overwhelming to an observer not interested in the item. We can get obsessive pretty quickly in this hobby and I have done the 'Have to have it! Now!' thing myself.

In this case, the odds are against it being: what it says; and worth the price! Think of what else you can buy, confident in its/their origins for the price of this item!

Peter

[Ulsterman]

Really? The "real" ones I ahve seen all had unsubstantiated provenance, but were quite decent. They were sold widely in the 1950s and 1960s by Souval to collectors- I have the ads for them in Fleydermans' Digest. According to Hayes they may have been awarded in india by the INA up to the 1970s.

[paul wood]

If they were awarded by the INA then there should be some certificate or paperwork with it. The Souval copies are fine and are popular with collectors but unless you have undisputed evidence that they are awarded pieces the buy as a souval copy and depending on the grade up to a few hundred dollars. As a collector of medals to Indians I often get he may have been awarded XY or Z, unless I can prove it I am only going to pay what the medal is worth and no premium.

Paul