Purple Heart 503rd PIR - Noemfoor Island - Pacific

[army historian]

Hello all I have been offered this named WW2 Purple Heart to Clyde J. Morr 503rd PIR. The naming looks very odd to me (I'm no expert). I would like to hear from some of you Purple Heart experts etc. on this. Thanks.

Edited December 16, 2012 by army historian

[Hugh]

I am absolutely not a PH expert, but here is an example of the more usual official engraving to Army recipients, courtesy of Tom Lane's website www.purplehearts.net. This example is to WARREN W. BECKER

Sgt. Warren W. Becker served with Co. I, 508th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82nd Airborne Division. He was KIA on September 27, 1944, during Operation Market Garden near Groesbeek, Holland.

Originally buried in the US military cemetery in Molenhoek, Holland, his remains were later repatriated to Eden Cemetery in Schiller Park, IL. Becker was from Chicago, IL.

Edited December 16, 2012 by Hugh

[Hugh]

Here's an Army example from the Pacific theater, again, courtesy of Tom Lane.

ROGER S. BENSON

Captain Roger S. Benson, HQ Battery, 1st Battalion, 59th Coastal Artillery, was a prisoner of war aboard the Japanese Hellship Enoura Maru, when it was struck by dive bombers from the USS Hornet, while at anchor at Takao, Formosa on January 9, 1945.

Benson was from Coudersport, PA.

[Hugh]

In both cases, the style is different, and the number (presumably a serial number?) does not appear. The naming on Morr's also starts a little lower than the examples.

[Hugh]

I don't know Mr. Lane, but he's obviously done a lot of research. You should take a look at another section of his website which shows "privately engraved" medals. It's a little scary.

http://www.purplehearts.net/id8.html

Best,

Hugh

[army historian]

Yes - I realized that the Purple Heart is privately engraved - the serial number is a dead give away. But remember that almost all "Offically Named" Purple Hearts are to KIAs etc. Alot of vets that earned them (and did not die - got unnamed medals). Great example is the Army Good Conduct (very rarely offically named - except for more recent issues to WW2 Vets, etc.). The error on the last name alignment, and only Initials & serial number seems too obvious for a fake. I was wondering if anyone has seen privately engraved Hearts with serial numbers. Hugh thanks alot for your help, I appreciate it. I guess I should also note, I am not buying this Purple Heart - I am trading a well known collect of parachute groups. His group is a lot better than mine - except that mine is for the 508th PIR, and the man was in the 509th piror. My group only has the 4 WW2 medals and 4 patchs and his award entitlement card. Here is the 503rd group. George

[Herman]

George, your PH is obviously privately engraved. Lets hope it was done by the recipient.

What one sees in private engraved medals is added ranks, dates and numbers. Most times the sequence also differs and does not look like the official engravings.

The worst thing that happens is that some croock engraved your medal last year for some financial benefit.

Good luck, nice group anyway.

Herman

[army historian]

Thank you Herman, yes I think you hit it on the nose. That is my option also. since I paid less than $100.00 for my group - I feel it is worth the chance. George

[scottplen]

I think its a nice privately engraved WWii group and for $100 you can't go wrong !!!

[Ulsterman]

I think its a good one. odds are the family are still about and you might ask them. Have you ever seen the JOMSA article on purple Hearts in WW2 and the naming styles?

[army historian]

Thanks scottplen and Ulsterman. No I have not seen the JOMSA article, will have to look it up. With all the hype about Purple Hearts, I don't think I want to deal with his family. I really do not collect Purple Hearts, this is the third one I've had. The first was an enameled and numbered one. The last two are in groups one named, one not (including this one). I will post better pictures when the group shows up. This Purple Heart was awarded for "Injuries" not wounds. Some of the paratroopers were dropped at 150' or less during the drop. The Lt. Col. lead pilot had not reset his altimeter for the ground level of 150'. He was broken down to Captain after the drop. George

Noemfoor Island drop

PVT. Clyde J. Morr

After looking closely at this picture - I noticed he is wearing the one piece armored or mechanic "jump suit" - interesting.

Edited December 21, 2012 by army historian

[scottplen]

I have had negative dealings with most famiies ! i prefer to stay away from contacting them !

Edited December 21, 2012 by scottplen

[army historian]

Scott - I have been contacted by family members of groups I've owned. all have been positive. I have sold two groups back to the families. One Hungarian, one US. Two have supplied a lot of information I did not have. But they contacted me, One I did contact - His medals had been stolen, I asked if he wanted them back. He said no (he could replace from the PX), except for some miniatures - sent back to him. Another group (Old CA National Guard) appears to have been stolen from a museum (I do not want to get involved with this one). So I agree with you, especially on Purple Hearts. There has been too much hype on them and other US medals lately. Like you I, am a collector, and researcher, trying to save and keep, and add to the history associated with the medals or groups, I do not need the head aches. One question what happened to your extraordinary Imperial German Collection? Cheers George

Edited December 21, 2012 by army historian

[scottplen]

I had to sell the imperial collection a few years ago when my wife became unemployed !!

[army historian]

Very sorry to hear that Scott, I am sorry, is that why you have gown to Purple Hearts (your Purple Heart collection is fantastic). The group showed up today - I will start posting pictures. It appears he served in two campaigns - New Guinea (two jumps) and The Southern Philippines. He did not jump on Corregidor (this is probably why the other collector traded). My gain. Morr served in the Illinois National Guard 1936-1939. Very interesting. More later. Cheers George

[scottplen]

Thanks! yes , check to see it Illinois NG had yearbooks for those years there might be a picture of him in it ?

[army historian]

Thanks Scott I will do that - quick note: First I found another picture of him on the 503rd Heritage site. Second on his discharge from the Ill. National Guard he has listed "Flood" Active duty 7-28 Feb. 1937 - for the 1937 Ohio River Flood. I checked the book "Awards and Decorations of the U.S. State Military Forces" by Gregory W. Ogletree 1988 Patriot Press. Illinois N.G. awarded a ribbon for State Active Duty (1923-1937) called the "Campaign Bar", and (1937-1967) called the "Active Service Ribbon, they still award the ASR, but I think the ribbon is a different color. Very interesting. Here is the picture from the Heritage site. George

Current Illinois Active Service Ribbon:

Edited December 22, 2012 by army historian