O.H.L. beim A.O.K. 18 ?

[Chris Boonzaier]

Would I be correct in assuming a Nachrichten Offizier der O.H.L beim A.O.K. 18 would be from the O.H.L attached to assure Communications from the A.O.K to the O.H.L ?

Best

Chris

[Paul H2]

Sounds like an OHL "spy" snooping around an army HQ- An intelligence officer.

Can you give some more details Chris--do you have a name?

Paul

Edited February 10, 2013 by Paul H2

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

I think nachrichten only became intel in WW2? It was still Radio/Communications in ww1.

It is to "Uffz. Lehmann beim Nachrichten Offizier der O.H.L beim A.O.K. 18"

I am guessing they were there to assure Comms between OHL and the 18 Armee ?

[Bernhard H.Holst]

Hi,

I think nachrichten only became intel in WW2? It was still Radio/Communications in ww1.

It is to "Uffz. Lehmann beim Nachrichten Offizier der O.H.L beim A.O.K. 18"

I am guessing they were there to assure Comms between OHL and the 18 Armee ?

Hello Chris:

Nachrichten in WW II was still signals/communication as it was in WW I. Bundeswehr changed the meaning to Intelligence. I believe that "Nachrichten Offizier der O.H.L." was some kind of supervising authority representing the O.H.L. and to ensure that operating procedures and similar were adhered to. One should bear in mind that radio communication in contrast to telephone systems were not in wide use during that time.

Bernhard H. Holst

[Chris Boonzaier]

Aaargh... right you are....

I forgot i had done this a few years ago on the site, you post jogged the memory...

http://www.kaiserscross.com/76001/282001.html

Each Armee-Oberkommando had a staff officer of the
Telegraphentruppen attached to it who acted as advisor and was responsible for
technical details relating to communications. Under his command was an
Armee-Telegraphen-Abteilung, a Funker-Kommando and 2 Schwere Funkenstationen.

..after 1917...

The Akofern and Akofunk fell away and an
Armee-Nachrichten-Kommandeur (Akonach) took over all the Nachrichten units
within the A.O.K.s, excluding those under Generalkommando or Divisional
command.
The Akonach was responsible for the coordination,
readiness and communication regulations and security within his area of command
and were centrally numbered from 1-26.

But the OHL officer still seems not to fit in 100%...

[Paul H2]

I've never heard before that Nachrichten only referred to intelligence in WW2. What is the source of that? I've seen the terms used to mean intelligence in both wartime and even pre-war German documents.

Here is an article by Markus Poehlmann on the German Intelligence Service during the Great War: He states that

Nachrichtenoffiziere Der OHL were intelligence officers and Nachrichten-Referenten were signals officers.

The article:

http://www.intelligence-history.org/jih/poehlmann_intro-5-2.html

Walter Nicolai was Chef des Nachrichtendienstes der deutschen OHL.. and he wasn't a communications officer

Paul

[Chris Boonzaier]

Wow... that IS interesting!! Thanks for the link :-)))

The German terms Nachrichten and Nachrichtendienst are not easy
to translate. Nachricht can mean "news", "information", "message", but
also "intelligence". In the era discussed here, a Nachrichtendienst can
mean a news agency as well as an intelligence service. The contemporary military
terminology was confusing as well. While the secret intelligence department of
the OHL was called Sektion, later Abteilung IIIb, the department
responsible for intelligence assessment was referred to as
Nachrichtenabteilung. IIIb’s intelligence officers attached to the armies
were the Nachrichtenoffiziere, while the armies’ G2-officers were (mostly)
listed as the Generalstabsoffizier Ic. The technical progress of the
signals troops – the Nachrichtentruppe – resulted in a general shift in
the use of the term Nachrichten from intelligence to signals.
Consequently, in 1917 the Nachrichtenabteilung was renamed Fremde
Heere (Foreign Armies), and the Nachrichtenoffiziere had to rename
themselves Nachrichtenoffiziere der OHL in order not to be confused with
the Nachrichten-Referenten, the Staff Officers Signals, who in the
meantime had become attached to the armies on a permanent base. Put another way,
there might be many cases in the history of intelligence where the renaming of
institutions simply served the purpose of masking institutional continuities.
But in the cases discussed here, the shift in terminology is an excellent
indicator for the profound and rapid changes which the military institutions
underwent between 1914 and 1918.

[The Prussian]

Hello!

That´s right. I the pre-war time they were called Telegraphentruppen. In july 1917 the Nachrichtenwesen (signal service) were reorganizied. The name Telegraphentruppen was changed into Nachrichtentruppen. Each army, army-corps and division had their own Nachrichten-Kommandeur.

In addition the 18th army in march 1918 had the following parts of the Nachrichtenwesen.

Armee-Nachrichten-Kommandeur 15

Armee-Fernsprech-Abteilungen 115-118

Fernsprechzug 618

Fernsprech Stationszüge 1131, 1137, 1141, 1142, 1144, 1167, 1175, 1179

Fernsprech-Betriebszüge 1020, 2.1039, b.1040, b.1041, 1045, 1048, 1076

Fernsprech Bauzüge 941, 973, 978, 856, 817

Kraftwagen Fernsprech Bauzüge 963, 964, 966, 980, 981, 993, 1906, 1909, 1914, 1915, b.1916

Blinkerzüge 3, 6, 22, 45, 52, 111, 190, 221, 237, 321, 337, 504, 506, 507, 509, 515

Divisions Funkerabteilung 143

Armee-Nachrichten-Park 15

Armee-Funker-Park 15

Nahrichten-Ersatz-Depot 3

Meldehundestaffel 52

Armee-Funkerabteilung 15

Vermessungs-Abteilung 26

[dante]

 

I've never heard before that Nachrichten only referred to intelligence in WW2. What is the source of that? I've seen the terms used to mean intelligence in both wartime and even pre-war German documents.

 

Here is an article by Markus Poehlmann on the German Intelligence Service during the Great War: He states that

 

Nachrichtenoffiziere Der OHL were intelligence officers and Nachrichten-Referenten were signals officers.

 

The article:

 

http://www.intelligence-history.org/jih/poehlmann_intro-5-2.html

 

Walter Nicolai was Chef des Nachrichtendienstes der deutschen OHL.. and he wasn't a communications officer

 

Paul

Paul, this link is broken, would you have another...? thanks, Paul