Chris Boonzaier Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Would I be correct in assuming a Nachrichten Offizier der O.H.L beim A.O.K. 18 would be from the O.H.L attached to assure Communications from the A.O.K to the O.H.L ? Best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H2 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 (edited) Sounds like an OHL "spy" snooping around an army HQ- An intelligence officer. Can you give some more details Chris--do you have a name? Paul Edited February 10, 2013 by Paul H2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 Hi, I think nachrichten only became intel in WW2? It was still Radio/Communications in ww1. It is to "Uffz. Lehmann beim Nachrichten Offizier der O.H.L beim A.O.K. 18" I am guessing they were there to assure Comms between OHL and the 18 Armee ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernhard H.Holst Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Hi, I think nachrichten only became intel in WW2? It was still Radio/Communications in ww1. It is to "Uffz. Lehmann beim Nachrichten Offizier der O.H.L beim A.O.K. 18" I am guessing they were there to assure Comms between OHL and the 18 Armee ? Hello Chris: Nachrichten in WW II was still signals/communication as it was in WW I. Bundeswehr changed the meaning to Intelligence. I believe that "Nachrichten Offizier der O.H.L." was some kind of supervising authority representing the O.H.L. and to ensure that operating procedures and similar were adhered to. One should bear in mind that radio communication in contrast to telephone systems were not in wide use during that time. Bernhard H. Holst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 Aaargh... right you are.... I forgot i had done this a few years ago on the site, you post jogged the memory... http://www.kaiserscross.com/76001/282001.html Each Armee-Oberkommando had a staff officer of the Telegraphentruppen attached to it who acted as advisor and was responsible for technical details relating to communications. Under his command was an Armee-Telegraphen-Abteilung, a Funker-Kommando and 2 Schwere Funkenstationen. ..after 1917... The Akofern and Akofunk fell away and an Armee-Nachrichten-Kommandeur (Akonach) took over all the Nachrichten units within the A.O.K.s, excluding those under Generalkommando or Divisional command. The Akonach was responsible for the coordination, readiness and communication regulations and security within his area of command and were centrally numbered from 1-26. But the OHL officer still seems not to fit in 100%... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H2 Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I've never heard before that Nachrichten only referred to intelligence in WW2. What is the source of that? I've seen the terms used to mean intelligence in both wartime and even pre-war German documents. Here is an article by Markus Poehlmann on the German Intelligence Service during the Great War: He states that Nachrichtenoffiziere Der OHL were intelligence officers and Nachrichten-Referenten were signals officers. The article: http://www.intelligence-history.org/jih/poehlmann_intro-5-2.html Walter Nicolai was Chef des Nachrichtendienstes der deutschen OHL.. and he wasn't a communications officer Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 Wow... that IS interesting!! Thanks for the link :-))) The German terms Nachrichten and Nachrichtendienst are not easy to translate. Nachricht can mean "news", "information", "message", but also "intelligence". In the era discussed here, a Nachrichtendienst can mean a news agency as well as an intelligence service. The contemporary military terminology was confusing as well. While the secret intelligence department of the OHL was called Sektion, later Abteilung IIIb, the department responsible for intelligence assessment was referred to asNachrichtenabteilung. IIIb’s intelligence officers attached to the armies were the Nachrichtenoffiziere, while the armies’ G2-officers were (mostly) listed as the Generalstabsoffizier Ic. The technical progress of the signals troops – the Nachrichtentruppe – resulted in a general shift in the use of the term Nachrichten from intelligence to signals. Consequently, in 1917 the Nachrichtenabteilung was renamed Fremde Heere (Foreign Armies), and the Nachrichtenoffiziere had to rename themselves Nachrichtenoffiziere der OHL in order not to be confused with the Nachrichten-Referenten, the Staff Officers Signals, who in the meantime had become attached to the armies on a permanent base. Put another way, there might be many cases in the history of intelligence where the renaming of institutions simply served the purpose of masking institutional continuities. But in the cases discussed here, the shift in terminology is an excellent indicator for the profound and rapid changes which the military institutions underwent between 1914 and 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Hello! That´s right. I the pre-war time they were called Telegraphentruppen. In july 1917 the Nachrichtenwesen (signal service) were reorganizied. The name Telegraphentruppen was changed into Nachrichtentruppen. Each army, army-corps and division had their own Nachrichten-Kommandeur. In addition the 18th army in march 1918 had the following parts of the Nachrichtenwesen. Armee-Nachrichten-Kommandeur 15 Armee-Fernsprech-Abteilungen 115-118 Fernsprechzug 618 Fernsprech Stationszüge 1131, 1137, 1141, 1142, 1144, 1167, 1175, 1179 Fernsprech-Betriebszüge 1020, 2.1039, b.1040, b.1041, 1045, 1048, 1076 Fernsprech Bauzüge 941, 973, 978, 856, 817 Kraftwagen Fernsprech Bauzüge 963, 964, 966, 980, 981, 993, 1906, 1909, 1914, 1915, b.1916 Blinkerzüge 3, 6, 22, 45, 52, 111, 190, 221, 237, 321, 337, 504, 506, 507, 509, 515 Divisions Funkerabteilung 143 Armee-Nachrichten-Park 15 Armee-Funker-Park 15 Nahrichten-Ersatz-Depot 3 Meldehundestaffel 52 Armee-Funkerabteilung 15 Vermessungs-Abteilung 26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 I've never heard before that Nachrichten only referred to intelligence in WW2. What is the source of that? I've seen the terms used to mean intelligence in both wartime and even pre-war German documents. Here is an article by Markus Poehlmann on the German Intelligence Service during the Great War: He states that Nachrichtenoffiziere Der OHL were intelligence officers and Nachrichten-Referenten were signals officers. The article: http://www.intelligence-history.org/jih/poehlmann_intro-5-2.html Walter Nicolai was Chef des Nachrichtendienstes der deutschen OHL.. and he wasn't a communications officer Paul Paul, this link is broken, would you have another...? thanks, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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