Imperial Lugers

[Hoss]

Ok

This is the blighter that broke the bank at Monte Carlo Hosswise.

[E Williams]

About time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nice complete rig you have there, luger and holster. Is the tool marked also? You're one up on me Eric until I take the photos of the one I just returned with. Right now, I've a line of ladies waiting outside my door that have to be taken care of before I can fondle this Luger.

BTW, yours need a very good cleaning............................

Edited November 11, 2013 by E Williams

[Hoss]

Thanks Ed the tool is proof stamped clean? I'm never going to fire it why clean lol! Question is it normal for early lugers not to have the date stamp?

Eric

[E Williams]

Thanks Ed the tool is proof stamped clean? I'm never going to fire it why clean lol! Question is it normal for early lugers not to have the date stamp?

Eric

Not during the war, after the war, 1920 for example, they called those an "alphabet" Luger. You need to break it down (while you clean it) and check to make sure the ser no#s match.

I'll do some checking but I don't think I'm wrong. There were two times I know of, 1920 and the 1929s that were called 'sneak' Lugers. (making more than the Treaty allowed)

How did the auction advert it?

Edited November 11, 2013 by E Williams

[E Williams]

I take all that back, yours does not have the stock lug, meaning it is 1908 1st army issue. The toggles were not date marked. First time toggles were date marked was 1910.

[E Williams]

Those first issued were ser numbered from 34-4828b. You acquired one the the very first issued and the first contract was Bavarian...pat yourself hard, that dry bank account doesn't mean shite!!!!! Get it cleaned though.

Edited November 11, 2013 by E Williams

[E Williams]

My most recent acquisition, a 1910 DWM is fine condition, we call Lugers like this in "Orgasmic Condition" all matching including the grips, magazine is not numbered but from the same time era. I was told some time ago that if they were not abused after capture, the best preserved Lugers were staff and medical, although carried in combat, seldom fired and I was not misguided. The blue rates at 98% and the straw at 95%. The bore is shiny with still deep grooves. As you can see it still retains the white chalk outlining DWM from the armory. This normally did not last long because of cleaning would have eventually removed the chalk except where it says 'Gesichert', this was done with white paint. Many collectors re-chalk their Lugers, I do not. This Luger did not receive the upgrade later of the hold open which when the last round is fired, the toggle would not have stayed open.

The front grip strap marking is for the (13.T.S.2.179.) 13th Trains Hospital 2nd Company weapon #179. A medic/stretcher bearer's Luger.

I will post an additional photo once it has been properly displayed.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-16240-0-73808000-1384208768.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-16240-0-54015300-1384208782.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-16240-0-30963500-1384208787.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-16240-0-14836800-1384208807.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-16240-0-29403100-1384208814.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-16240-0-07334400-1384208827.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-16240-0-28444900-1384208837.jpg

[E Williams]

Where's my manners. Eric, send it all to me , I'll clean it. :)

[Hoss]

Beautiful piece Ed

I only learned how to take em apart a couple of weeks ago I'll clean it this is the ad from the auction:

Description: SN 276. 4" 9mm bbl. "DWM" scroll on center toggle link. Two Imperial proofs on left side of receiver. All numbered parts are matching including both orig wood bottom magazines, one magazine having the period mark (276.) indicating it to be the original magazine to the pistol, the other without the period indicating it to be the spare. Serial number 276 making it one of the earliest of this model produced known today. No holdopen added. Front grip strap is unit marked "B.14.R.M.G.12." (Bavarian 14th Reserve Infantry Regiment, weapon number 12). Comes in a brown leather "AWM / 3 / 09" marked holster with orig Imperial proofed takedown tool. Back of holster is stamped "14IR. / 12." (14th Infantry Regiment Weapon number 12). This gun is featured on pgs. 314, 483, 570, 1108, and 1151 of Dr. Geoffrey Sturgess' The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols. This was the earliest complete matching 1908 rig encountered in the research of this book. PROVENANCE: Collection of Dr. Geoffrey Sturgess. CONDITION: Fine retaining about 60% blue with scattered pitting on the gun that is deepest on left side around sideplate and front of bbl. Grip straps are turning to brown. 50% orig straw with scattered corrosion. The bore is bright with light wear. Checkered walnut grips are worn with a few minor dings and indents. Magazines are very good with corrosion on the bodies. Holster is very good with minor scuffs, wrinkles and surface cracking. Takedown tool retains about 70% blue and has scattered light corrosion.

Eric

[E Williams]

You have a nice piece Eric, hold on to it, wish I could have gone after it but, can't have them all. Clean it and it will come up a bit from what it looks like now.

Beautiful piece Ed

I only learned how to take em apart a couple of weeks ago I'll clean it this is the ad from the auction:

Description: SN 276. 4" 9mm bbl. "DWM" scroll on center toggle link. Two Imperial proofs on left side of receiver. All numbered parts are matching including both orig wood bottom magazines, one magazine having the period mark (276.) indicating it to be the original magazine to the pistol, the other without the period indicating it to be the spare. Serial number 276 making it one of the earliest of this model produced known today. No holdopen added. Front grip strap is unit marked "B.14.R.M.G.12." (Bavarian 14th Reserve Infantry Regiment, weapon number 12). Comes in a brown leather "AWM / 3 / 09" marked holster with orig Imperial proofed takedown tool. Back of holster is stamped "14IR. / 12." (14th Infantry Regiment Weapon number 12). This gun is featured on pgs. 314, 483, 570, 1108, and 1151 of Dr. Geoffrey Sturgess' The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols. This was the earliest complete matching 1908 rig encountered in the research of this book. PROVENANCE: Collection of Dr. Geoffrey Sturgess. CONDITION: Fine retaining about 60% blue with scattered pitting on the gun that is deepest on left side around sideplate and front of bbl. Grip straps are turning to brown. 50% orig straw with scattered corrosion. The bore is bright with light wear. Checkered walnut grips are worn with a few minor dings and indents. Magazines are very good with corrosion on the bodies. Holster is very good with minor scuffs, wrinkles and surface cracking. Takedown tool retains about 70% blue and has scattered light corrosion.

Eric

[Chris Boonzaier]

"B.14.R.M.G.12." (Bavarian 14th Reserve Infantry Regiment, weapon number 12).

Eric

I think there is an error in the description....

I am by no means an expert, but i think this is Bavarian 14th Infantry Regiment, MG Company Weapon 12... not Reserve Regt.

[E Williams]

Chris, you are correct, the kicker here is the date of the Luger. It's a 1908, 1st army issue. The 14th Reserve Regt was part of the Bav 30th Reserve Div in 1914. Reserve regiments wasn't mobilized until then and at that time. Also, in one of my reference books, "The Imperial German Regimental Markings by Jeff Knoll, page 74, another Luger, same unit, he has described as being, B.14.R.M.G.6. as, Bayerisches Infantry-Regiment 14, Maschinengewehr-Kompany, Waffe Nr.6.

Also, Reserve Infantry units prior to 1914 were usually always designated with the 'R' in script.

Good catch!!!!!! (if I had smilies, I give you a "Cheers".

"B.14.R.M.G.12." (Bavarian 14th Reserve Infantry Regiment, weapon number 12).

Eric

I think there is an error in the description....

I am by no means an expert, but i think this is Bavarian 14th Infantry Regiment, MG Company Weapon 12... not Reserve Regt.

Edited November 12, 2013 by E Williams

[Hoss]

Thanks Gents good to know.

Eric

[E Williams]

1914 Erfurt, all matching except the grip screws, not Erfurt and the magazine is with a different number. Bore is bright and the groves are deep, 92% blue with 80% straw. It was quite dirty but it cleaned up well.

Front grip strap mark S.A.54. Signal Abteilung weapon #54 From research, this was a Bavarian signal unit that was organized in 1900. According to kaisercross.com, this was one of the only two signal units at the outbreak in 1914 and both were assigned to their respective Cavalry Corps. Soon the Germans realized just how important front line communications were and increased unit signal units. After 1914, this unit would have been broke into smaller units to create base signal companies for front line unit.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-16240-0-90189600-1386114036.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-16240-0-39897000-1386114063.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-16240-0-93830200-1386114040.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-16240-0-69630800-1386114049.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2013/post-16240-0-75889000-1386114054.jpg

Thought I would include a Christmas motif since it was a Christmas gift to myself.

[Chris Boonzaier]

ooooohhhhh.... that is nice indeed... and somehow it seems to Christmasy!!

[E Williams]

ooooohhhhh.... that is nice indeed... and somehow it seems to Christmasy!!

Not bad for 100 years old. Santa came early.

I've now set about working on a Signal display and I'm finding signal items are far and few between.

Edited December 4, 2013 by E Williams

[Chris Boonzaier]

Not bad for 100 years old. Santa came early.

Dont worry, explain to her you are no longer the youngest......

[maestro]

Very nice collection :love:

Here is a 1914 Erfurt Artillery, considered one of "Holy Grail" of Artillery Lugers, marked L.M.K. 26 (Leichte-Munitions-Kolonnen or Light munitions columns) http://www.legacy-collectibles.com/rare-1914-erfurt-artillery.html

Edited December 8, 2013 by maestro

[E Williams]

Very nice collection :love:

Here is a 1914 Erfurt Artillery, considered one of "Holy Grail" of Artillery Lugers, marked L.M.K. 26 (Leichte-Munitions-Kolonnen or Light munitions columns) http://www.legacy-collectibles.com/rare-1914-erfurt-artillery.html

Thanks.........

Saw that and it went fast too, so didn't anther one that I put a member here onto that's been looking. Missed out in less than a day.

I know of a 1915 Saxon MGK. In late 1914 they designated it "artillery" when in fact it was first designated the "Lange" model and the first model with a stock lug, it was because of that model that all Lugers began being produced with stock lugs. Government owned Erfurt first produced them but late 1914 DWM took over production control. I went to sleep last night thinking about it. But....it's Christmas and I have a lot of lady friends to buy for. ;)

Edited December 8, 2013 by E Williams

[Chris Boonzaier]

But....it's Christmas and I have a lot of lady friends to buy for.

See... if you had lived your life right... they would all be buying for you!

[E Williams]

See... if you had lived your life right... they would all be buying for you!

I don't want to put burdens on them too much, after all, they have to buy for their husbands too......... :)

[maestro]

Thanks.........

Saw that and it went fast too, so didn't anther one that I put a member here onto that's been looking. Missed out in less than a day.

I know of a 1915 Saxon MGK. In late 1914 they designated it "artillery" when in fact it was first designated the "Lange" model and the first model with a stock lug, it was because of that model that all Lugers began being produced with stock lugs. Government owned Erfurt first produced them but late 1914 DWM took over production control. I went to sleep last night thinking about it. But....it's Christmas and I have a lot of lady friends to buy for.

Know what you mean

the Luger bug is very infectious

[E Williams]

1916 DWM, all matching except mag, unit marked to the Machine Gun Troop 9 Company, virtually impossible to find out what regt 'this' luger was assigned to. What would be needed is a unit serial number assignments.

IMG_0003_edited-1.jpgIMG_0004_edited-1.jpgIMG_0005_edited-1.jpgIMG_0007_edited-1.jpg

UPDATE: I have found this MG unit Troop 9 was part of the 4th Inf Div and it was the division Machinengewehr-Scharfschutzen Abts. A Pomerania Div and it was rated First Class.

[Chris Boonzaier]

UPDATE: I have found this MG unit Troop 9 was part of the 4th Inf Div and it was the division Machinengewehr-Scharfschutzen Abts. A Pomerania Div and it was rated First Class.

Hi,

how do you figure the connection between the trrop and the 4th Division?

BestChr

is

[E Williams]

Hi,

how do you figure the connection between the trrop and the 4th Division?

BestChr

is

As you know MG units didn't follow uniformity when marking their Lugers. From a good source, some SS Abt marked Lugers as troop, being the only MG unit in the division. From a listing of the MGSs Abteilungs, Troop 9 was assigned to the 4.J.D. and a MG Troop were always Leichte M.G.-Trupps

Edited December 20, 2013 by E Williams