Bayonet (S98/05)

[Chris Boonzaier]

I am really not a bayonet buy, so I always call them "one of those butcher ones..."

Here are a few of them that I found along the way....

[Chris Boonzaier]

Can anyone say if the frog in the middle fits, or is it the Smaller WW2 style bayonet one?

Thanks

Chris

[Hoss]

uummm Erfurt love em the frogs all look W1 to me.

Eric

[IrishGunner]

We all call them "frogs", but do frogs have an official name? Did WWI soldiers call them frogs?

[Hoss]

What do the French call em?

[Joe Sweeney]

I believe they might be called Seitengewehrtasche. I think Chip will know.

I'm much more certain on the French---Porte-Baionette.

Joe

[IrishGunner]

Thanks, Joe!

[Kornel R.]

I believe they might be called Seitengewehrtasche. I think Chip will know.

I'm much more certain on the French---Porte-Baionette.

Joe

exactly as you said - they call it SEITENGEWEHRTASCHE or SEITENGEWEHRTRAGETASCHE

regards

Kornel

[Adler 1]

The S98/05 is a highly underappreciated bayonet nowadays... But just look at them! In the time the "butcher's knife" was develloped, most of the bayonets were much longer and thinner. This made them sort of fragile weapons. With the S98/05 a shorter bayonet with wider blade was a great improvement and the bayonet could also be used for other purposes like cutting wood etc.

Anyway, let's just say I'm a fan of these great bayonets and you have some fine examples there! Thanks for showing.

Adler 1

[Chris Boonzaier]

The S98/05 is a highly underappreciated bayonet nowadays... But just look at them! In the time the "butcher's knife" was develloped, most of the bayonets were much longer and thinner. This made them sort of fragile weapons. With the S98/05 a shorter bayonet with wider blade was a great improvement and the bayonet could also be used for other purposes like cutting wood etc.

Anyway, let's just say I'm a fan of these great bayonets and you have some fine examples there! Thanks for showing.

Adler 1

Hi,

I begin to like them as well... I will get some more detailed Photos up this week... I found some nice little details on them that I had never noticed before... if anyone else has any... feel free to post, wouple be interested in seeing the grips and stamps on them.

[E Williams]

Although I have a sawtooth, it is not unit marked. Looking for one, I know of one, can't have it, owner off my Christmas list. :)

Edited December 4, 2013 by E Williams

[Chris Boonzaier]

This was interesting to see as a non bayonet guy.... look how the top of the handle of the early Erfurt is not straight, there is a slight dip....

[E Williams]

Maybe it was used as a hammer, wouldn't be the first time a GI used his bayonet to hammer something.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

Not a hammer amigo! The 1915 Erfurt were not straight along the back... even when tey added the metal plate they had to bend it.... Here is a 1915 Erfurt with one of the regular ones with a straight flat plate...

[Chris Boonzaier]

You can see how it curves a but.... and here is the curved Erfurt with and without a plate....

[Chris Boonzaier]

See in the photo above how the plate has been "formed" to accomodate the plate?

[Chris Boonzaier]

Although made in the industrial age, these WW1 bayonets are still artisanal in a way... they have "personality" that WW2 ones dont... just see the small differences.....

[Chris Boonzaier]

This much personality just does not exist with WW2 bayonets....

[Chris Boonzaier]

The old leather one has luckily hardly shrunk....

[E Williams]

Hi,

Not a hammer amigo! The 1915 Erfurt were not straight along the back... even when tey added the metal plate they had to bend it.... Here is a 1915 Erfurt with one of the regular ones with a straight flat plate...

I have the plate on my model made by Becker, it is straight and not bent but there are pings on the plate like the ones on some police sidearms from tacking posters up.

The top photo still looks like it was bent with the plate present. You can also see the stress put on the wood grips just under where the plate is bent.

[Adler 1]

Not a hammer amigo! The 1915 Erfurt were not straight along the back... even when tey added the metal plate they had to bend it....

Sorry, but that's not correct... When the back of the handle isn't straight, the bayonet must have been used as a sort of hammer, because it should always be straight. I don't want to be self the proclaimed specialist at all, but in 40 years I've handled a lot of these S98/05 in all sorts (with or without Schutzblech, with or without teeth, teeth removed etc.) and when the back of the handle wasn't straight, the bayonet was abused in some way.

Yet another thing is to be mentioned... The blade does not sit straight on the handle. When the bayonet is attached to the rifle you can see it turns away under a very slight angle. The theory behind this was that the bayonet would have no (or less) influence on the bullet traject when firing the rifle with the bayonet attached...

Adler 1

[Chris Boonzaier]

Sorry, but that's not correct... When the back of the handle isn't straight, the bayonet must have been used as a sort of hammer, because it should always be straight.

Adler 1

Hi,

Check out the 1915 Erfurt without the plate (Bottom one in post 12) and the 1915 Erfurt at the top in post 14 (with the plate). Both have the exact same bend, only the one has the plate (which in turn is formed to follow the curve).

There is also little chance, if it had been bent using it as a hammer, that it would still fit on a rifle, which it does, or that the wood would not have split. I will get some side by side photos done and post them.

Best

Chris

[Chris Boonzaier]

I have just been reading an interesting article. There is no mention of the specific bayonet types, but he does mention the change from a.A. to n.A., i.e how the a.A. were refurbished into n.A. bayonets

The a.A. had wooden grips a bit rounded on the sides along the top.... when a factory put the Schutzblech on to change it to a n.A., they changed the wooden grips for new ones that were flat along the top, this way they would be flush with the Schutzblech. The Factory would them also grind off the "ears".

When the Army in the field did the changes they usually just added a Schutzblech, often leaving the old grips and ears on the bayonet.

I assume that means they had to fit the Schutzblech to the grips that were already on the bayonet. In the top bayonet in post 14 you can see a slight concave dip along the spine of the Erfurt 1915, and the Schutzblech is rounded on the side to fit the old a.A. grips that are still on... If one had a factory refurbished bayonet with straight wooden grips (as in the bottom one in post 14) you would not be able to see the slight concave dip in the spine as it would be hidden by the grips and Schutzblech... Erfurt had dips in their 84/98aA as well... maybe it is a throwback to this?

Photos to follow...

I hate to admit it, but I am really becoming interesting in items that have just been laying in a box up until now :-(

[Chris Boonzaier]

Here is a pic stolen from the web, at the bottom is an Erfurt a.A. also with the dip in the handel.

(I dont want to appear rechthaberisch, but find the details interesting)

[Hoss]

'rechthaberisch'

for me and others from the n.east of England = 'opinionated' (one on the verge of an argument or kicking the cat across the room) = just agree with him.

Eric