Japan On the Issue of Dating Higher Classes of Golden Kites by their Screws (once again...)

[JapanX]

In elaboration of these threads

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/51177-classification-of-colden-kites-in-3rd-and-2nd-class/?hl=%2Bgolden+%2Bkite

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/51156-classification-of-colden-kites-in-4th-and-5th-class-an-attempt/

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/51228-classification-of-golden-kites-in-6th-and-7th-class/page-1?hl=+golden +kite

and of course this one

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/52822-applying-the-golden-kite-dating-classification-a-question-for-japanx/?hl=%2Bgolden+%2Bkite

and this one too

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/57428-an-ultimate-test-for-dating-golden-kites-in-4th-and-5th-classes-with-scattered-riverts/?hl=%2Bclassification+%2Bof+%2Bgolden+%2Bkites

Edited January 14, 2014 by JapanX

[JapanX]

As we already know this famous naïve basic rule

"The basic rule can be summarised as the closer the rivets, the older the piece"

Isn`t working in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th classes.

Moreover - pieces from Showa epoch have centered rivets.

Pieces with less centured rivets are typical for ealier pieces that came from Meiji and (possibly) Taisho epoch.

Really interesting question will be: is it possible that the very same manufacturer made pieces with centered and scattered rivets?

Let`s see

[JapanX]

First will be this piece from Meiji/Taisho epoch (it was used in this classification http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/51156-classification-of-colden-kites-in-4th-and-5th-class-an-attempt/?hl=%2Bclassification+%2Bof+%2Bgolden+%2Bkites#entry468412 and was labeled as type 3)

Obverse

[JapanX]

Reverse (centered rivets)

[JapanX]

Now take a look at this piece

Obverse

[JapanX]

Birdies are identical!

Pieces also very similar by obverses

[JapanX]

But second piece has scattered rivets!

[JapanX]

Ain`t it something!

[JapanX]

If you like to draw a line

[JapanX]

Interesting, that obverses of this two pieces have some mini differences.

The most pronounced

Detail of piece with centered rivets / Detail of piece with scattered rivets

Same story on the other side

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

Rivets

[JapanX]

But the birds are practically identical

Look them in the eye!

... or wings

Edited January 14, 2014 by JapanX

[JapanX]

Same form of Kites, same (approximately) time period, but different centering of rivets!

And this piece from posts # 6-7 is not exclusion.

Here comes another one (sold at Ebay a loooooong time ago)

[Brian Wolfe]

This is an absolutely fascinating post.

There is so much to learn and only one live-time to do so.

Regards

Brian

[JapanX]

I only wish more guys (and girls ) were interested in variations and dating of japanese orders (and not only golden kites)

[Dieter3]

I'm very interested, just no money to supply specimens with which to do so!

Absolutely fascinating subject though. Dating and origins are extremely important in my opinion. Why couldn't they simply stamp dates and makers on ALL of these? (I know, where's the "fun" in that!)

[JapanX]

I know, where's the "fun" in that!

You said it!