Poland Polish Iron Cross

[Troy Tempest]

Good morning gents, I just saw this on a New Zealand site, I've never heard anything about them. Wiki has an entry on it, but no references. It is listed by a seller who peddles some really shonky items, but I did find an entry on AHF about it from 2010, but that's it. Are these for real? Thanks!

[IrishGunner]

It definitely is a made up item - it is clearly not an official Polish award. It looks like someone attached a Republic of Poland - Rzeczpospolita Polska - coin on top of a Third Reich 1939 Iron Cross. The coin was then stamped with the "Anchor" symbol of the 1944 Warsaw Uprising by the Polish Home Army. It's actually not an anchor, but the initials PW for Powstanie warszawskie - Warsaw Uprising in Polish.

Again, I have no idea when this was "crafted," but it is definitely a fantasy item in my opinion. I lived in Warsaw and know several veterans of the Uprising - I never saw one of these pieces. I don't even recall seeing one in the very excellent museum in Warsaw dedicated to the Uprising.

[Troy Tempest]

Hi Rick, this is what the un-referenced wiki article says about it:

The Cross of the Warsaw Uprising (Polish: Krzyż Powstania Warszawskiego) is an informal award used by the Polish soldiers during the Polish-German fights for the city of Warsaw in 1944 (the Warsaw Uprising). It was made from captured German Iron Crosses, with a pre-war 1 złoty coin pinned to it in the centre over the swastika, with the coat of arms of Poland featuring kotwica and inscription 1944.

I wondered where they would get these captured EK2s from, and apparently it is answered in this thread on AHF, although I still don't really believe it, especially the bit about special ribbon for killing a Gestapo man. Were there actually Gestapo men on the ground during the Uprising?

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=15260

Edited April 1, 2014 by Troy Tempest

[IrishGunner]

I still don't really believe it, especially the bit about special ribbon for killing a Gestapo man. Where there actually Gestapo men on the ground during the Uprising?

To paraphrase Forest Gump; "Wiki is as wiki says"

Yes, Gestapo was in Warsaw during the Uprising. In fact, I knew a woman (she has since passed away) who was awarded the Virtuti Militari for pointing out a Gestapo officer so her partners could assassinate him... This happened on Aleje Ujazdowskie just down the street from where the US Embassy now stands.

I especially don't believe these were made during the Uprising for awards. While the Polish Home Army used captured German equipment, including helmets and uniforms, I just don't believe they would have made these Iron Crosses.

I still say total fantasy. I truly suspect they were probably made (from fake Iron Crosses no less) in the last 10 to 20 years to fool unsuspecting tourists.

Edited April 1, 2014 by IrishGunner

[paul wood]

I wonder if the poster on the AHF was the original peddler of these blasphemies and put them on the site to give them a false sense of legitimacy (it's not the first time something of that nature has occurred).

Paul

[Troy Tempest]

Does anyone know if there are any documented appearances of these medals before the 90s? To me that would show that they are modern fakes. Surely something as significant as this would have appeared and been documented sometime in the fifty years after the end of the war?

[Rogi]

Does the price differ from Reguler EK in this year range?

[IrishGunner]

Surely something as significant as this would have appeared and been documented sometime in the fifty years after the end of the war?

Exactly. Other than an entry on another forum and wiki, there hasn't been any documentation presented.

At best, it's "trench art"... But even that's a stretch.

Here's the link to the Warsaw Uprising Museum - Muzeum Powstania Warszawskiego http://www.1944.pl/en/

You might consider contacting them... If there is anything legitimate about this item, they will know.

Edited April 2, 2014 by IrishGunner

[Paul R]

Look at the traces of paint on the inner rim of the silver part of the EK2. I say that the EK is a fake...

[Troy Tempest]

Thanks for that link to the museum, I'm sending an email to Marta Kukowska, the head of the centre now, to ask her for her thoughts. Thanks for the tip about the actual EK2 probably also being fake. I'll keep you posted! Unfortunately, the top bid is now at $91NZ. I contacted one of the bidders and told him it was dodgy, but I haven't been able to contact the others.

[IrishGunner]

I too wondered about the originality of the EK itself, but haven't any knowledge in that area... Great comment Paul.

[Aahauge]

Well, this is another interesting topic.

I do believe we have enough evidence to prove such a medal valid. There are a few pieces on museums in Poland. AK members had to kill an SS soldier during the Warsaw Uprising. A genuine Iron Cross (stolen from a dead German soldier) would have a coin soldered on with a quite crude engraving of AK and SS.

I think I have seen a handwritten award document at some Polish Museum. The medal shoved above is ofc fake. A genuine would probably go for at least 4.000 USD.

Best regards Aahauge