China Hong Kong auction

[drclaw]

I share very similar thoughts KimKan. It's an auction that ranks alongside the Tamman and American Numismatic Association sales. An unbelievable collection of rare objects that we might not see again for another decade or more.

One thought I had was that many of the ultra-premium items (the Grand Order of the Orchid Blossoms, the Order of the Illustrious Dragon, the First Class Second Grade Double Dragon) could possibly have fetched even higher prices had the auction been more widely known to non-Chinese collectors. That might also have affected the prices for other items.

There were some surprises nonetheless such as the cased First Class Golden Grain that sold for USD 23,000. Going on that price, the cased First Class Striped Tiger might have fetched even more had it not been damaged.

On the Godet Double Dragon, I think Chinese collectors attach a premium to foreign-made specimens because of their scarcity and so long as there is a recognised maker name attached. There's a prestige attached to the name of a European Court jeweller, especially since most if not all of the Chinese-made Second Type Double Dragons are unmarked.

Edited April 8, 2014 by drclaw

[KIMKAN]

It will then be most interesting to see how the Paris-based Bacqueville ODD 3rd Class breast star fares during the next Spink auction to be held at the end of April. Catalog estimate of circa one thousand UK Pounds proposed by Spink seems to ve very attractive (not to say completely underestimated) for a such a high-quality foreign ODD breast star, in perfect condition on top of that. We may have another surprise round the corner......

Regards

KimKan

[JapanX]

* Pillars of the State, cased First Class - 47,200

* Pillars of the State, cased Second Class - 7400

Looks almost like a mistake

[utopis]

Poly auctions and an interesting story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-26950692

[JapanX]

Master of finger painting...

Well, that is exactly why I've always put DO NOT DISTURB sign on the door knob!

Especially after buying another Rembrandt!!!

[pieter1012]

A Hong-Kong Chinese friend of mine attended the auction and wrote me that the Chinese/Manchukuo items were hotly contsted among two or three mainland Chinese bidders. There were not many bidders in the room because you had to pay a huge deposit beforehand to get an auction number. The only item he could lay his hands on was the second class order of the Golden Grain, which was actually a first class in a second class case.

One solace for us collectors with more modest financial means is that, after so many Chinese treasures were lost or destroyed during the many wars and revolutions, finally China sees some of its historical objects coming back home.

Pieter

[JapanX]

One solace for us collectors with more modest financial means is that, after so many Chinese treasures were lost or destroyed during the many wars and revolutions, finally China sees some of its historical objects coming back home.

Rather poor consolation for our usual collector :lol:

[drclaw]

It'll be intriguing how many of these will be brought back to the mainland by their new owners or stored in Hong Kong.

If I recall, Chinese laws prohibit the export of cultural heritage / antiques from 1912 and older. This would cover the Qing ODM such as Double Dragons.

If your sole focus is enjoying your collection, you'd ship them home to China. But if you have an eye on investment, then storing them in Hong Kong keeps your options open in terms of future disposal.

Over time, overseas collectors will likely see a diminishing pool as China becomes a black hole for ODM. Once they return to China, they don't come out again …

Edited April 9, 2014 by drclaw

[drclaw]

I wish to add that the level of knowledge and expertise of contributors to this forum is simply phenomenal.

Chinese ODM has always been a challenging field given the limited literature, the loss of historical information from China's turbulent history and language barriers.

But we've managed to solve many of the mysteries on this forum and to roll back the boundaries of uncertainty.

Thank you to everyone for sharing your knowledge so freely

Edited April 9, 2014 by drclaw

[pieter1012]

DrClaw,

I am also not sure of the present law on the export of Chinese antiques, but I remember vagely that this law also applies to the S.A.R., unless there is proof that the object was already in Hong-kong before the handover in 1997. This in order to prevent objects being smuggled into Hong-Kong from the mainland for export, at the same time providing the local antique dealers with a chance to sell the objects they had already in stock in 1997 to be sold abroad. So the question is whether this collection (at least the DD's) was already in Hong-kong before the handover.

My friend wrote that two of the buyers came from Shandong and are very wealthy, so my guess is that they will bring the acquisitions back home.

Pieter

[drclaw]

Thanks Pieter.

I asked the question of a Hong Kong based auction house if cultural export restrictions applied to Hong Kong and the response was no. But this was a couple of years ago so the laws might very well have changed. Or they were keen to have another potential bidder on the books ...

With Shandong tycoons are bidding in the room, I'm surprised the Orchid Blossom, Illustrious Dragon, etc, didn't sell for more. Perhaps they already own several specimens and weren't desperate to pick up another.

[utopis]

What was the exact amount asked for deposit?

[drclaw]

From the catalogue:

* If this is the first time you're participating in a Poly Auction and you have not been recommended by a registered client endorsed by us, the deposit will be HK$ 500,000 (approx USD 64,000 !!!)

* If you intend to bid on a Premium Lot marked O in the catalogue, the deposit will be HK$ 1,000,000 (approx USD 129,000 !!!)

None of the ODM that I could see in the catalogue were designated Premium Lots.

I'd guess the requirement for prospective new clients to deposit USD 64,000 to bid on ANYTHING was the biggest reason why some of the items did not sell for higher.

[utopis]

Well, that is just ridiculous. I'd still understand it if they would say on all lots with an estimate higher than xx (let's say 50K) you need to make a deposit. Who would want to make a deposit of 64K if he only intends to bid on let's say a DD for 10K. Not to mention that many collectors won't be able to afford such a sum.

[hc8604]

More than medals breaking records.. http://news.yahoo.com/chinese-cup-auctioned-record-breaking-36m-065323364.html?bcmt=1396971763735-8cabdf4c-6c39-4c7a-9545-e263f2c83654

[JapanX]

This auction was a total disaster!!!

They were expecting at least 38 000 000 bucks :lol:

[drclaw]

Not as disastrous as having a security guard kick a $3.8 million painting into a pile a trash where it was carted away by the cleaners into landfill

[hc8604]

I can't imagine what the auction house is going through right now and how to recover that painting. Maybe they have it insured...

[JapanX]

I can't imagine what the auction house is going through right now ...

Very stressful situation!

My (professional! ) recommendations

1) Channel Your Energy

2) Don't Make a Scene

3) Be Neat and Organized *

4) Say What They Want to Hear

* or is it too late for this one?! :whistle:

Edited April 11, 2014 by JapanX

[ray11]

You guys CRACK me up!!!

[Megan]

Fascinating thread - fortunately those nice images were still on the Poly website (and now reside on my hard drive too). Thank you, folks.

[hoveyII]

many rare and expensive orders