China Great joke: Order of the DD 1st type

[utopis]

A great joke by the auction house Spink: Their military auction on the 24th of July features a Russian made breast star of the Order of the DD 1st type 2nd class 3rd grade.

The joke, you ask? Estimate: 3000 - 4000 GBP

[Rogi]

lol That one made even me laugh :D

[drclaw]

We should be taking bets!

But of course you never know who's bidding on the day. The Double Dragons in the April Spink auction went for less than what I'd have imagined but this was shortly after the Hong Kong auction.

The 2008 UBS Tammann catalogue has two First Type Third Class transitional breast stars where the badges were of similar manufacture while the star corpus were very different and European made (by Godet and a Russian St Petersburg maker). The catalogue posits, correctly in my view, that the badges were made in China and the star corpus by European jewellers.

Interestingly, First Type badges - continued to be awarded right up to 1902 together with the First Type transitional breast stars. KimKan and I have identified at least two examples of First Type Third Class badges awarded to a British and a French officer who participated in the Boxer Rebellion expeditionary force. The awards would have been made in 1901-02. When Puyi's father Prince Chun visited Berlin to express regrets for the assassination of German Minister Baron von Ketteler, he commissioned First Type transitional breast stars from Godet.

[JapanX]

We definitely need more jokes like this one

[KIMKAN]

Dear all,

Yes, the Spink auction at the end of this month carries very interesting Chinese items, including a rarely seen cased medal issued by the Legislative Department to reward those who helped out putting together the Chinese republican constitution and an award certificate for the Double Dragon 2nd Class bestowed upon an Austrian officer just a few months before the fall of the Ching dynasty. These very thin and fragile award documents are almost more difficult to find than the medal they relate to. Unfortunately, no picture on the catalogue. It should be present on the on-line auction system.

The Russian-made ODD star is quite incredible indeed ! I have checked all my papers and computer-based auction documentation over the past seven or eight years and I have not found a Russian-made ODD star. I have found a few German (Godet) and French (Bacqueville) but no Russian.

I do not know if this Mikhail Bogdanov was a famous maker or not and if he produced other orders and decorations than Chinese ODD. Gustav Tammann's book indicate that he produced these "transitional" ODD stars. Anything else ? Just one tricky idea pops to mind. During his overseas trip in 1896, Li Hung Chang stopped by Russia in April and May, both in Odessa and in St. Petersburg, where he received the order of Saint Alexander Nevsky. Do I jump to conclusions if I say that at that time a stong demand for ODD badges could have led the Chinese delegation placing orders with various local makers to reciprocate on these courtly manners ? Alternatively, these Russian-made ODD 1st type stars could have been produced on the fly to satisfy a continous demand. I like the April-May 1896 possibility as it perfectly matches the style of the badges and could explain why various makers (as not only Bogdanov made them) suddenly jumped on the bandwagon.

Foof for thought only.

Yes, I am of the opinion that a 0 fell off Spink's estimate. Printer's typo no doubt....

Regards.

KimKan

[utopis]

I have checked all my papers and computer-based auction documentation over the past seven or eight years and I have not found a Russian-made ODD star.

The Morton and Eden auction in December 2011 had a Russian made 1st type 2nd class 2nd grade (if I'm not mistaken) DD breast star. It was estimated at 100.000 - 150.000 GBP but was not sold.

[drclaw]

I do not know if this Mikhail Bogdanov was a famous maker or not and if he produced other orders and decorations than Chinese ODD. Gustav Tammann's book indicate that he produced these "transitional" ODD stars. Anything else ? Just one tricky idea pops to mind. During his overseas trip in 1896, Li Hung Chang stopped by Russia in April and May, both in Odessa and in St. Petersburg, where he received the order of Saint Alexander Nevsky. Do I jump to conclusions if I say that at that time a stong demand for ODD badges could have led the Chinese delegation placing orders with various local makers to reciprocate on these courtly manners ? Alternatively, these Russian-made ODD 1st type stars could have been produced on the fly to satisfy a continous demand. I like the April-May 1896 possibility as it perfectly matches the style of the badges and could explain why various makers (as not only Bogdanov made them) suddenly jumped on the bandwagon.

It's certainly a possibility KimKan given that:

* First Type Third Class badges were awarded to foreign recipients in Beijing during 1901-02 in the aftermath of the Boxer Rebellion

* First Type transitional breast stars, commissioned from Godet, were awarded by Prince Chun when he visited Berlin in 1901.

The Second Class Double Dragon awarded to Generalmajor Paul v. Hoepfner, who was Inspekteur of Marine-Infanterie between 1896 and 1902, was also a First Class transitional breast star.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/59120-double-dragon-for-german-admiral/

Rick Research wrote:

"As Generalmajor, von Höpfner commanded 3. Ostasiatische Infanterie Brigade (5. nd 6. OA Inf Regimenter), for which he received the Red Eagle Order 2nd Class with Oakleaves and Swords (RAO2EX), Bavarian Military Merit Order-Commander with Swords (BMV2X), and OldenburgHouse Order-Commander with Star and Swords (OV2aX, replacing previous no swords Commander 2nd Class which he is wearing here). Since he is not wearing either the Bavarian or upgraded Oldenburg Orders in this photo, that should help narrow down date of the portrait. (The China Medal was issued in 1902.) By 1902 he was back in Germany as the Commandant of Berlin under Military Governor Generaloberst von Hahnke.

He received the Double Dragon some time between 1897 and 1901. I don't have access to the naval rank lists 1897-1900 at the moment, but wonder if he actually received that award in Germany before the Boxer rebellion, for something to do with a visiting Imperial military delegation?"

The star corpus of Von Hoepfner's breast star is however different to the Godet example awarded by Prince Chun in 1901 which had diamond cut rays.

There are three possibilities for von Hoepfner's star:

(1) he received it from Li Hongzhang in 1896 - Li was in Berlin in June 1896 where he met Bismarck

(2) he received it in Beijing in 1901 where he was part of the foreign expeditionary force

(3) he received it from Prince Chun in 1901 in Berlin after von Hoepfner returned from China - Prince Chun met with Kaiser Wilhelm II on 27 August 1901

Note that the star corpus of von Hoepfner's breast star has sharp, narrow rays while the Godet insignia were diamond cut rays. It's possible that Prince Chun commissioned insignia from different Berlin jewellers with different styled star corpuses but that's unlikely.

Interestingly, the von Hoepfner star corpus is very similar to the Bogdanov specimen in the July 2014 Spink auction and the Feodor Ruckert specimen in the December 2011 Morton & Eden auction.

They are also similar to what might be described as the early Second Type Double Dragon breast stars, like this one in the Morton & Eden December 2012 auction.

So we can see an evolution in the Double Dragon insignia:

(1) First Type Badges

1882 - 1902, with a number awarded to members of the Boxer Rebellion expeditionary force in 1901-02

(2) Transitional insignia

(a) First Type transitional breast stars - 1894/96?-1902. These have a reduced size Chinese made First Type badge mounted on a European made star corpus. Only the Second and Third Class have been encountered. Presumably the tablet shaped First Class badges were not amenable in design to being mounted on a star.

(b) Second Type transitional breast stars - 1896?-1902. These appear similar to the Second Type breast stars except they are very flat and made from a single sheet of metal.

(3) Second Type Double Dragons

(a) early Second Type breast stars - 1902? The points of the star corpus are composed of five groups of three rays and is similar in design to the transitional breast stars 2(a) and (b).

(b) mid Second Type breast stars - these are the most frequently encountered; the points of the star are composed of three groups of three rays. Given their frequency, we can conclude that these were awarded over the longest period during the life of the Second Type 1902-1912

© late Second Type breast stars - similar to (4) but "reduced size" at around 82 mm in diameter as opposed to around 92 mm in diameter for the (3) and (4). KimKan has done extensive research on recipients that place these reduced size specimens as late awards.

It appears that around 1902, a variety of different style insignia were still being awarded. Certainly, it was a transitional period for China in the aftermath of the Boxer Rebellion and the return of the Imperial Court from Xian where it had fled as the Eight Nation Alliance force marched on Beijing.

Edited July 6, 2014 by drclaw

[besu]

very good，but Until today, we still haven't seen the first grade of the Orderof the DD, awarded to the monarchical and Prince, Prince,first grade, 1-2 class、Looking forward to the future, could see them in the international market

[KIMKAN]

Dear all,

Thanks to Utopis for the additional information. Yes, Morton & Eden had one Russian-made ODD star on its December 1st 2011 auction, under number 1203, already picked by Drclaw in this post. I missed that one. So, the Russian ODD World Cup reads 1-0 for the time being, soon 2-0 after the Spink sale, the only difference being that at Spink's estimate, i.e close to auction kick-off price, that Bogdanov star will fly our the window in no time. The Feodor Ruckert star did not sell in 2011 as the price must have set back many potential buyers. Your could almost buy a brand new Lamborghini with that kind of money and drive like mad through King's Road - Hong Kong -....at the end of the day, this is just a matter of preference.

Regards to all,

KimKan

[drclaw]

very good，but Until today, we still haven't seen the first grade of the Orderof the DD, awarded to the monarchical and Prince, Prince,first grade, 1-2 class、Looking forward to the future, could see them in the international market

There is just one First Type First Class First Grade I'm aware of, and that's the award to the Sultan Abu Bakr of Johor and is held in the Royal Abu Bakar Museum.

From the photo, it appears to be solid gold with no enamelling and is mounted with a large pearl. I'm hoping to see it in person later this year to confirm. See post #5.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/22785-royal-abu-bakar-museum-johor/

For the Second Type, you're quite correct that no one has seen a First Class First Grade. It's not known if one was even awarded. The design drawings suggest it's quite different to the others (a single dragon facing forward with a large pearl). I'm hoping for the day a specimen appears in a forgotten museum or in an auction somewhere.

On the Morton & Eden Feodor Ruckert breast star, it's interesting to speculate if it would have sold at the price had it also been stamped Faberge. I reckon it would have.

We might think ours a prohibitively expensive collecting field (especially with recent prices), but ODM is still has a way to go before it can compare to big money collecting fields like Old Masters paintings, Lalique jewellery, vintage classic automobiles or Ming / Qing Dynasty vases. But as KimKan says, it's all a matter of preference.

Edited July 6, 2014 by drclaw

[JapanX]

You better take a look at this 1st class 3rd grade set (thanks Pieter! )

Edited July 6, 2014 by JapanX

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

Currently in the collection of Museum of the Netherlands Chancellery of orders and decorations.

It was awarded in 1909 to Minister of Foreign Affairs of Netherlands .

The badge is gilded silver 98.8 x 50.2 mm

Brest star is gilded silver 90.9 x 91.0 mm

[drclaw]

Oh wow!!!! I stand corrected about the First Type First Class transitional breast stars!

So these were awarded as BOTH a badge and a breast star!

But 1909? This would certainly be most unusual as this is well within the period of the Second Type Double Dragons. Is it possible to obtain any documentation on this? I'm guessing there's a dating error somewhere and this would be a pre-1902 award.

Edited July 6, 2014 by drclaw

[JapanX]

But 1909? This would certainly be most unusual as this is well within the period of the Second Type Double Dragons.

It certainly is

I'm guessing there's a dating error somewhere and this would be a pre-1902 award.

Could be ...

[pieter1012]

Hi Gavin,

according to the museum, this set belonged to Jhr. F. Beelaerts van Blokland, an old Dutch family of junior nobility. Jhr. Beelaerts was a career diplomat who later became minister of Foreign Affairs.

I have a friend who works at the Chancellery of Netherlands orders and he checked for me in the archives. It is recorded there that by Royal Decree of 8 July 1909, number 49, Jhr. Beelaerts van Blokland, Minister Plenipotentiary, Head of the Netherlands Legation in Peking, was given permission to wear the 3d class, 1st grade of the order of the Double Dragon of China. The date that the order itself was awarded, is not mentioned.

I agree with you that 1909 is well into the second type Double Dragon, so I also wonder why he had this early type. I am going to Japan soon for the summer, and after I return I will check with the museum if they have any records that indeed attribute this set to Jhr. Beelaerts. In his career Jhr. Beelaerts received many foreign orders, which seem to have been donated by the family to the museum, so hopefully there should be some list, mentioning the DD.

to be continued,

Pieter

Edited July 7, 2014 by pieter1012

[besu]

You better take a look at this 1st class 3rd grade set (thanks Pieter! )

11.JPG

Admiration, perfection！

[drclaw]

Thanks Pieter for sharing these photos and information.

That's what I love about this forum - it brings together the research and knowledge of so many experts, leading to stunning discoveries. Thanks to this forum, we've discovered among many other things:

* the only example of the First Type First Class First Grade badge known - it's in Johor

* that the First Type transitional breast stars were awarded as a set with the First Type badge, at least certainly for the First Class

* that the First Type First Class oblong badges were also awarded as transitional breast stars

When you're back from Japan and settled back home, I'd love to grab the high resolution photos for my file if you're happy to share them.

[KIMKAN]

Dear all,

Additional research has panned out this interesting Russian-made transitional breast star by Feodor Ruckert. It was part of the Baldwin Hong Kong auction N°49 of August 2010, listed under number 850. Very similar to the Spink breast star to be sold this week. This beautiful piece went for US$ 70.000, excluding auction fees. Should be close to USD$ 85,000 once everything has been paid for. It will then be most interesting to see how it fares as this is the only similar Russian ODD star we have seen so far with an official auction price tagging along. No doubt the very conservative estimate made by Spink will be exceeded.

Regards to all.

KimKan

[KIMKAN]

Dear all,

The Bogdanov breast star has reached 18,000 UK£ this afterrnoon during the Spink auction, close to five times the estimate ! Adding auction costs and commissions, we should be close to 22,000 UK£, i.e circa 37,000 US$ to be paid by the buyer.This is solid money indeed. It was an extraordinary item, perhaps worth such a small fortune.

Regards.

KimKan

[paul wood]

Seems about the right price to me. I only hope that it was bought by someone who will honour their payment, unfortunately many European auction houses have had their fingers burnt by Chinese internet bidders who have not comprehended the fact that successfully bidding for something also entails payment.

Paul

[JapanX]

... successfully bidding for something also entails payment.

Getta hell outta here!

P.S.

Seems about the right price to me.

Next star is on you

[paul wood]

I have my suspicions about the $70,000 achieved in the HK sale, there are several prices on DDs which they seem to have achieved but have never been closely realised in any subsequent auctions, maybe they are lucky and have pet clients who will spend the amount of money they tell them to.

Paul

[utopis]

It's nice to see that even top Chinese orders are still 'affordable' compared to Tsarist stuff

[drclaw]

Non-payment that Paul mentions is a real problem, not just in ODM sales, and must be a nightmare for auction house staff.

Chinese Poly Auctions requires new bidders not recommended by an existing client to lodge a HK$500,000 (approx USD 64,000) deposit for non-premium lots and HK$1,000,000 (USD $128,000) for premium lots!

Perhaps the most famous instance of non-payment concerned the controversial sale by Christies of bronze fountainheads looted from the Old Summer Palace during the Second Opium Wars. There were 12 such heads, believed cast from designs made by Guiseppe Castiglione, and were part of a fountain in the largest of the palaces, the Haiyantang or Palace of Calm Seas.

Over the years, several have surfaced and recovering them have become a cause celebre in China. In 2009, Christies in Paris auctioned two heads - the rat and rabbit - from the collection of Yves Saint Laurent amidst demands by the Chinese government for their return.

The successor bidder, a well-known businessman Cao Minghcao, then refused to pay the 28 million euro successful bid saying the bids were for "moral and patriotic grounds".

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=ymn7lketwMcC&pg=PT36&lpg=PT36&dq=sotheby+lost+treasures+auction+china&source=bl&ots=bWoKvZr0vH&sig=cTO1PLSTrzOyHRP2HUvWq0_--NU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=v4zRU-PwE8W2uATjkoBo&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=sotheby%20lost%20treasures%20auction%20china&f=false