ralstona Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) The first US shots of the war were fired with this cannon. Pershing personally authorized it's shipment to West Point. It has been there since 1920. More details in description from museum below. You can still see the French unit markings on the side. Edited December 31, 2014 by ralstona
IrishGunner Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Fired by my Regiment, the 6th Field Artillery.
dond Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 I'm glad they had a sense of history back then. Too bad the curator at Aberdeen didn't when they scraped the German A7V.
IrishGunner Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 I'm glad they had a sense of history back then. Too bad the curator at Aberdeen didn't when they scraped the German A7V. Yea, Aberdeen scrapped a lot didn't they?
IrishGunner Posted December 31, 2014 Posted December 31, 2014 Was the 6th Truman's unit? No. Captain Harry S Truman (later US President) commanded Battery D, 129th Field Artillery, a unit of the Missouri National Guard and with the 35th Division in WWI. The 6th Field Artillery was a Regular US Army unit, part of the 1st Infantry Division in WWI.
Paul R Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Did they have any Renault F 17s there? Edited January 2, 2015 by IrishGunner
Hoss Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 You can still see the French unit markings on the side. That's all been added I'm assuming its 'Bridget' its been 'done up' and the finish isn't original of course. Regards Eric
ralstona Posted January 1, 2015 Author Posted January 1, 2015 Paint looked original to me. Hard to tell from these pics but at least a dozen soldiers scratched their names into the paint of the shield, so if it was done up it must have been before it left France. There was a Renault 17, right across the aisle (and right next to a lovely Dodge Brothers staff car). See pic below. I love the image of these guys dragging this 75 half a mile because they were so excited to fight. I guess by 1917 there weren't too many European soldiers going out of there way to get shot at (certainly not the French they borrowed this gun from).
Hoss Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Paint looked original to me. Hard to tell from these pics but at least a dozen soldiers scratched their names into the paint of the shield, so if it was done up it must have been before it left France. There was a Renault 17, right across the aisle (and right next to a lovely Dodge Brothers staff car). See pic below. I love the image of these guys dragging this 75 half a mile because they were so excited to fight. I guess by 1917 there weren't too many European soldiers going out of there way to get shot at (certainly not the French they borrowed this gun from). Really whats original camouflage paint look like? yea they must have been really excited....man. I mean cooool man did they hit anything? us 'Europeans' could not wait for you 'guys' to show up.......eventually. Eric ps isn't this the same gun?
ralstona Posted January 1, 2015 Author Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) This is an original French camo paint scheme from the war. I believe this one has its original paint. I will email the West Point museum to confirm. Here is a link to the 1st Division Museum at Cantigny: http://www.firstdivisionmuseum.org/museum/online/toward_the_front/argonne/artifacts/entry1.aspx. The bottom confirms the French painted their guns this way. Theirs is repainted to look period but the one at West Point definitely displays period patina. Hoss, that is the same TYPE of gun... but it is not the same gun... it isn't even there same museum. Not sure what you mean (really that could apply to your whole post... which is vaguely hostile and I can't for the life of me figure out why). Edited January 1, 2015 by ralstona
IrishGunner Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Well, I'm embarrassed to say that since this is my regimental history, I should know more, but I knew the gun existed, but did not know where it was displayed. It seems we have two guns "claiming" the lineage. One at the West Point Museum as shown by ralstona and one from Wikipedia posted by Hoss. Wikipedia claims "Bridget" was at the US Army Ordnance Museum at Aberdeen Maryland, but that has been closed and the displays moved to the Quartermaster Museum at Fort Lee, Virginia. A bit of detective work may be called for...
ralstona Posted January 1, 2015 Author Posted January 1, 2015 I'll contact WP. There's seem to have a pretty solid evidence trail. Been at WP since 1918. There certainly could have been more than one in this first action, right? Maybe the other one was repainted grey later.
Hoss Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 This is an original French camo paint scheme from the war. I believe this one has its original paint. I will email the West Point museum to confirm. Here is a link to the 1st Division Museum at Cantigny: http://www.firstdivisionmuseum.org/museum/online/toward_the_front/argonne/artifacts/entry1.aspx. The bottom confirms the French painted their guns this way. Theirs is repainted to look period but the one at West Point definitely displays period patina. Hoss, that is the same TYPE of gun... but it is not the same gun... it isn't even there same museum. Not sure what you mean (really that could apply to your whole post... which is vaguely hostile and I can't for the life of me figure out why). Vaguely Hostile? Simple answer I didn't appreciate your post what do you mean by 'Europeans' and 'certainly not the French'? for the ..."eventually"... I'm sorry Gents it was stupid and childish a quote from 'Dads Army' !! Eric
IrishGunner Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Gentlemen, I think there has been one of those cases where "insult" was read into a post on the internet where none was intended simply because the intent of the written word on the internet is sometimes misunderstood. I don't believe ralstona intended any insult in his description of US "eagerness". I read it as "over eagerness" by the Yanks because they didn't understand life on the front quite as well as the experienced French. It is well documented that the US soldiers were "eager" and didn't always accept the wisdom of their more experienced French teachers. There are some conflicting "facts" - some taken from a personal visit to the museum at West Point and some taken from Wikipedia. How about we return to the discussion, without implied or misconstrued "hostility," and resolve this interesting twist of two guns claiming the lineage? Edited January 1, 2015 by IrishGunner
IrishGunner Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 I'll contact WP. There's seem to have a pretty solid evidence trail. Been at WP since 1918. There certainly could have been more than one in this first action, right? Maybe the other one was repainted grey later. Certainly, there was more than one gun with C Battery, 6th Field Artillery. By organization there were 4 guns in a battery; 24 to a regiment in 6 batteries. I suppose the honor of highest distinction goes to the gun section that fired the very first round, vice all of the guns firing rounds in the first action.
Hoss Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Bridget serial is 17318 what number is the gun at West Point? Eric
ralstona Posted January 1, 2015 Author Posted January 1, 2015 Irishgunner, Totally right, both in the problems of written language and in my intensions with the part about eagerness. Ignorant America soldiers eager to fight a war that Europeans had long ago realized was futile. The French got special mention because they had mutinied earlier in 1917. BTW, one of those French soldiers was my great grand father. Art
IrishGunner Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Bridget serial is 17318 what number is the gun at West Point? Eric Hoss, what is the source of Bridget's serial number? Art, when you email West Point, perhaps you can get a serial number. And a description of the source documents you mention as the "paper trail." This is turning into something quite interesting... at least to me!
IrishGunner Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 The US National Archives has a photo captioned: Battery C, 6th Field Artillery, US Army firing French-built 75mm field gun 'Bridget', France, 1917-1918 In my experience, these Signal Corps photos are "staged" and not depicting real action. This photo, in my opinion, fits into that category. Given the anecdote that Art describes about pulling the gun by hand a half mile into position, I doubt there was a photographer present. (Of course, that story sounds a bit fanciful to me as well.) Could the first gun - the West Point gun - have already been taken away for safe-keeping and this was it's replacement named Bridget and posed for this photo? The paper trail on the two guns seems most important.
ralstona Posted January 1, 2015 Author Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Well here's a nice bit to help. From the west point fb page. Then and now, definitely original paint. https://m.facebook.com/WestPointMuseum/posts/10154013828970790 Can't copy pic because it is copyrighted...but there it is. Edited January 1, 2015 by ralstona
IrishGunner Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Art, that old photo on the Facebook page isn't in France. Read the caption. It's a photo of the West Point gun in its old display in Taylor Hall (Ordnance Museum) and now in its display where you saw it at Large Weapons Gallery. I didn't go to West Point; so, I have no personal knowledge of this gun. I don't live far from either Aberdeen or Fort Lee; so, if we can find Bridget's current location, I just might make a trip. And unfortunately, I don't own a copy of the 6th FA WWI history. Had a chance to get one, but lost the auction. Only by a few bucks. I wasn't happy. Wonder if anyone has the 1st Infantry Division official history; that might help. Edited January 2, 2015 by IrishGunner
Hoss Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) Paint looked original to me. Hard to tell from these pics but at least a dozen soldiers scratched their names into the paint of the shield, so if it was done up it must have been before it left France. There was a Renault 17, right across the aisle (and right next to a lovely Dodge Brothers staff car). See pic below. I love the image of these guys dragging this 75 half a mile because they were so excited to fight. I guess by 1917 there weren't too many European soldiers going out of there way to get shot at (certainly not the French they borrowed this gun from). Check your link again 'restored and repainted' btw the tank finish isn't original either, being a healthy skeptic the main reason Pershing probably wanted the gun sent home was to be taken apart? were they any in the States at this time? Is that the serial number in one of the posted photos? Eric Edited January 1, 2015 by Hoss
IrishGunner Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Eric, the serial numbers are only useful if we can find documents that authenticate the serial number of the gun that fired the alleged first round.
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