Who would have something like this?

[Chris Boonzaier]

I have popsted this a few years ago, but found the photo againand it fascinates me...

I have a few old EK2s missing the ring and loop.... but this is not a collection of rings that just happened to fall off..... someone removed them... and sold this on ebay....

- Was this the guy who seems to use EK2s to make frankenstein EK1 ?

- Have these subsequently been bought to repair old EK2s, now resulting in EK2s from one maker with stamped rings from another... thereby giving us "variations" that we have never seen before?

 

 

[Brian R]

It really is a head scratcher. I would think it would be a group used for repairs -  a period collection by a jeweler or something. But, the fact that there are various maker marks make it that much more confusing and makes me think they were snipped off for one reason or another - after the war.

 

Nevertheless, this type of thing would sure put a monkey wrench in the collecting community. As more and more examples of crosses with various parts are found out by the community, this could surely make it that much more confusing.

[dond]

They would still have to attach them without leaving a visible trace of the repair for it to work.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Indeed... but they were also soldered on by experts back then.... just need a guy who knows what he is doing.....

[kasle]

Such thing can be really soldered back without leaving trace and even patinated. All you need is a jeweler who is experienced in repairing jewelery. When it comes to gold and silver, there is no problem. Neusilber, zinc and brass are another cup of tea. It is not harder, jewelers just haven´t tools for it, as their tools for repairing gold and silver work with different temperatures.

But I still think, that this can be trap only for beginners. Cross is frame and core, not mark on the ring.

[Streptile]

I think it's possible these are rings removed by Frankenstein doctors too, but who knows? It's sure interesting.

But I still think, that this can be trap only for beginners. Cross is frame and core, not mark on the ring.

​I agree Miro.

[Brian R]

But I still think, that this can be trap only for beginners. Cross is frame and core, not mark on the ring.

​Agreed that that would generally be the case, especially for experienced EK collectors. But one must think that the right marked ring on a combo of known fame and core could cause some confusion. Imagine if it was a known core (from one maker) and a known frame (from another) topped with a stamped ring from the opposite company one would expect. I would guess in certain situations, where the combo of parts has been witnessed but no conclusion of maker/assembler has been determined, it could make for a debate not necessarily had before.

[kasle]

Of course you´re right. Although I don´t think there is some unnecessary debate on the forum. There is always something to learn. This thread is another reason to repeat, that mark should be handled only as a supporting evidence. This is what I always say to those happy with their "O" or "C" crosses, which turn out to be textbook Godets. Ring can be  just badly stamped - not necessarily replaced by forger. Every theory based on MM only, is castle of sand.

Following one simple scientific rule can eliminate any confusion - every idea can be accepted only when supporting experiment is repeated three times with the same results. Translated to our language - every new variant can be accepted only after finding three identical exemplars of that kind. And, as we see, this is chain of rings with random marks.

[Brian R]

Of course you´re right. Although I don´t think there is some unnecessary debate on the forum. There is always something to learn. This thread is another reason to repeat, that mark should be handled only as a supporting evidence. This is what I always say to those happy with their "O" or "C" crosses, which turn out to be textbook Godets. Ring can be  just badly stamped - not necessarily replaced by forger. Every theory based on MM only, is castle of sand.

Following one simple scientific rule can eliminate any confusion - every idea can be accepted only when supporting experiment is repeated three times with the same results. Translated to our language - every new variant can be accepted only after finding three identical exemplars of that kind. And, as we see, this is chain of rings with random marks.

​

[kasle]

Just as an example what is possible:
This miniature had broken hook for attaching mini. The cross was attached through the eyelet, that was mounted via black thread around the button ring (first photo). Jeweler had to repair the hook in a cold process, as I refused to dismount the ribbon, which would burn during soldering. So he made a threaded hole to the button ring and the hook acted as a screw. The repair was finished with the drop of Potassium sulfid which caused the instant patina and left virtually no traces of repair work.