1914 -800 marked EK1 and EK2 Prinzen Size-

[Graf]

Hi,

 

I want to show you two nice 1914 EK1 and EK2 Prinzen Size -both marked 800

The EK1 came in an original box and is also marked with Maker mark for Rothe Vienna

The size of EK1 is 34 x 34 mm and Weight is 11 g

The Ek2 is 35 x 35 mm and Weight is 11.3 g It came with Austrian Type Ribbon

I am not sure who is the maker of the of the EK2 -Rothe???

 

Regards

 

Graf

[kasle]

Hi,
I am sorry to say EK1 is a fake. Called Stepped core fake or Small crown fake. It is known in all EK versions from 1813 to TR.
Stepped cores are seen on 1813 crosses, rarely also on 1870 ones. But on ww1 pieces it is total giveaway. Second red flag is to see same crown on 1813 pieces as on 1870 and 1914 ones.

EK2 is nice original, but I can´t help you with the maker.

 

Edited January 23, 2016 by kasle

[Graf]

Hi Kasle,

 

Thank you for your opinion

It is interesting finding

 

I have one more so- called Prinzen Cross  1914 -2nd Class in a smaller size 27 mm

It is not marked

 

What is your opinion

 

 

Graf

One more picture

 

Graf

[kasle]

Hello,

My opinion is that 27 mm Prinzen can be good one. Although it strongly resembles Stepped core fake, it is not from this "breed". There are a few but crucial distinctions between these. First of all, Stepped core fakes of all eras are always of 34 mm variety. Secondly, the core on genuine 27mm Prinzen is not stepped. Thirdly, reverses are completely different on originals and stepped core fakes.

Because you can´t compare reverses, as you have one EK1 and one EK2, I am posting you obverses and reverses of Stepped core EK2s. As you can see, crown on Stepped core fake is completely different on reverse comparing to its obverse. On 27 mm period Prinzen the reverse crown is very similar to obverse crown.

There is only one relation between this genuine and fake type. It is thought that original 27 mm Prinzen was used by fakers as model to create very convincing Stepped core fake. If you are interested in this theme, please read more in this thread:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346906&page=2&highlight=EK2+Prinzen

 

[Graf]

Hi Kasle,

 

Thank you for the opinion

All Prinzen Size Crosses, I have, bought from   Military Dealers around the World

Regarding the 1st Class Prinzen, I did buy it from Germany 4 years ago.

After your comments , I contacted him and he rejected them. 

i do not want to disclose his name, due to privacy issues..

How sure are you that this Cross is not OK

I respect your opinion, however I do not like to get in dispute with this German Dealer, because I have bought very nice items from him, which are 100 %, Original

[kasle]

If you put "Stepped core fake" or "Small crown fake" to search window at google, you will be loaded with tons of arguments, supporting my opinion.

Stepped core fake is an excellent fake, must be said for the defence of your beloved dealer. It passed many COA expertises, and it also scored some appearance in "expert" books as original. Mostly before the invention of internet forums.

Look: Here is reverse of original Prinzen EK1 cross made by Meybauer. It has (nearly) identical markings as your EK1, in similar position (it is.Meybauer´s mark, not Rothe´s as you said). Please compare the hardware - hinge and pin. It´s something totally different.

[Graf]

Hi Kasle,

 

It is getting interesting

I agree with your comments

There are few points I would like to explore

The Mark on my Prinzen is Rothe not a Meybauer. Please, check in your files for the Rothe.s marks and compare.

Or look closely the marks on the two EKs presented on this forum

The marks of those makers  look very similar and for a very long time Meybauer Crosses were considered as Rothe and Neffe ones ( Comments made also by Stephen Previtera in his book The Iron Time - page224, Also the hardware of the Prinzen EK1 in the book is different from the one you presented above by yourself)

Although, many makers kept their Pin system very standard, there are many pieces made with different systems

Looking at the Prinzen above, if there was not a maker's mark, one can take it for a Wagner made one.

 

Regards

 

Graf

[Stogieman]

I agree the mark originally presented has been attributed to Meybauer, not Rothe. To me, the biggest give away on the EK1 is the quality and definition of the core. Not consistent with original pieces I have seen/handled over the years. The whole point of these pieces is that they were private purchase, non-standard and expensive items. The quality on this should be exceptional, sharp and distinct. My opinion, for what it's worth.

PS: The 27mm cross looks fine to me. Compare the crispness and definition of the core to your EK1.

[Graf]

Hi Stogieman,

 

Thank you for your opinion

 

Regards

 

Graf

[Graf]

Few more pictures of the two 800 EKs

I hope they will bring more information to discuss

 

Graf