HHORX 10 ribbon bar

[Daniel Murphy]

Could you fine gentlemen of the forum possibly identify who this bar belonged to? I have owned this for close to 20 years or so, therefore I know it is not a recent put-together. Some of the ribbons are frayed and the Bavarian and Saxon ribbons are missing their devices. I know this is unusual with so many ribbons from so many states, but I think it is real. No pre war decorations are present except for possibly ribbon 8 which could be a RAO or HHK. Interesting pin too.....

Dan Murphy

[Stogieman]

Interesting bar and mostly "invisible" war rewards. With no long service awards I don't think Rick will be able to find this soldier.

[Paul C]

Would someone list the awards for the ribbon? I would think the HHO w/ swords, the Waldeck and lack of 25 year would make it possible. The Waldeck rolls are published, as well as the Bayern rolls.

[webr55]

Can't really see: Is #6 the Saxon Albert order? Is there a hole for missing swords?

[Daniel Murphy]

OK, Since there is no long service, I think we can assume (dangerous word I know) that there are no pre war decorations moved up to the 2nd class. Therefore I believe we have a highly decorated junior officer with some awards possible as NCO or Fahnrich. Ribbon 8 is definitely orange and white like a RAO, but being ahead of the Honor Cross and placed next to the BH, it is possible the wrong ribbon was used to reprresent a HH. There was never a device on the Waldeck ribbon so Pre war?

Here is what I think.

1. EK2

2. HHOX

3. BrK

4. HT

5. MVO4x or MVK?X

6. AO4X

7. WV4 or WsVM

8. HH

9. BH

10. HKX

Edited March 27, 2006 by Daniel Murphy

[webr55]

He is not in the Reichsheer...

[Guest Rick Research]

#8 is three equal stripes, and depending on what the original color was before such severe damage, might be either a Silesian Eagle (yellow) or an Italian Crown Order (red), eithe of which are in the wrong spot... so it may indeed be a "close enough, no one will notice" for a Hamburg.

Classic 1920s Godet construction-- looks to me like the backing has been peeled off and thrown away.

I'd say this is the top of two rows, and the "other stuff" was on a now missing row.

Given what is there and the lack of WW1 award rolls, if not in either branch of the Reichswehr, I don't see any hope of an ID either.

1) damage obscures what missing devices were and even what at least 1 ribbon was

2) this is the top of two rows, so a partial (but impressive) group, not a complete one.

[Daniel Murphy]

I truly appreciate all your hard work, I guess it was just not to be this time. I just ran across it the other day when I got a uniform (not bought with the bar) out of storage and figured if anyone could ID it, it would be the members of this forum. Thanks again,

Dan Murphy

[Stogieman]

PS: Second row, if there was one, will be something easily confused as a single..... 2X LS Awards, Austrian WW1, Hungarian WW1, Bulgarian WW1, possibly a few foreign to round it out, but also possible as a shorty below this........ that should narrow it down a tad. ;>)

[webr55]

I'd say this is the top of two rows, and the "other stuff" was on a now missing row.

This didn't occur to me at first, but I agree. Especially with the Hindenburg in last place - that is a very common sign of a double bar.

If this is a double, with so many awards, this should be a General Staff type. Probably Hauptmann iG during WW1, Major aD.

Now I have some vague (and I stress VAGUE) possibilities (I started with leftovers from an extensive, though ultimately useless research on another bar: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3398 ):

- Ludwig HENKEL from IR 83, Hauptmann 1.10.1913. Adj. AOK 8. Armee, Major aD. Got BMV4X, AOR1X and Waldeck. No proof of HHOX, though. Not in WM 1939.

- ? SCHMANDT from IR 16, Oberleutnant 22.4.1914, Major aD. However, not iG as far as I know. Got BMV4X, AOR1X and Waldeck. No proof of HHOX. Not in WM 1939.

- Otto von BRANDENSTEIN from IR 117, Hauptmann 1.10.1913, Major aD. Got BMV4X, AOR1X, Waldeck AND HHOX. There are several v. Brandensteins, which makes it complicated. The one who got the BMV4X was iG. And one of them is in the WM 1939 ranklist as Oberst (E).

Of course, there might be lots of others, for example who got the BMV4X as Oberleutnant. Wish we had the second row.

Rick, can you do anything else with these?