Bronze British War Medal

[Guest Darrell]

What's the story on these Bronze British War Medals? I have seen a few but would like to know why these command such a high price. Rare? Or just some other reason?

Here is one on a dealers site:

Impressed: NO 101116 CHINESE L.C.

Obv:

[Guest Darrell]

Rev:

[andy]

Rev:

Hi

The bronze medal was given to all British subjects who were enrolled in native labour corps and who served in theatres of war. These are usually found to Maltese, but some were awarded to the Indian Labour Corps and to Chinese from British possesions. It is much scarcer than the silver medal.

This is an extract from "Collecting Medals and Decorations" by Alec A Purves.

Hope this helps

andy

[Ed_Haynes]

Not quite knowing what earthly meaning the word "native" has (except as a synonym for another "n-word"), I shall ignore Purves' quote.

These were awards, in the spirit of the bronze medals that had been awarded to non-combatants and "followers" (= support personnel) of the Indian Army since the "Burma 1885-7" clasp to the IGS 1854.

One reason they are more uncommon is that they were MUCH less valued and tended to be discarded. Likewise, given the low social status of the recipients, no great efforts were made to track them down and award these medals, helping to explain the lots of unissued medals that occasionally surface on the market. The real reason for their scarcity, however, is that while approximately 6,500,000 silver war medals were awarded, only some 110,000 bronze medals were given out.

I have several (all to Indians, of course), and find them to be immensely interesting! While research on the individuals is completely impossible, research on the units is very promising. A recent acquisition (still naked, sorry), to "2066 LABR TULSI, 75 IND LAB COY".

[Guest Darrell]

Thanks guys. Interesting stuff.

[Ed_Haynes]

Here is a fascinating group, which a friend is allowing me to post.

Variously: 4444 L. Nk. David Singh, 117 Lab. Corps / 8077 Naik David Singh, MWS / Subadar David Singh, RIASC / Subadar David Singh, ASC (MT)

Clearly, David Singh (what a name!!) got his bronze BWM in the Labour Corps, moved on into the Military Works Service, and later the Royal Indian Army Service Corps. The once-lowly Lance-Naik of laborers was commissioned as a lofty Subadar and, while he continued to wear his BRONZE war medal, added an unnamed Victory Medal (to which he would NOT have been entitled) to complete the "visual set", especially important when just ribbons were worn.

Efforts are underway to disentangle the tale.

[Nick]

There are a number of fake Bronze BWM out there. They are pretty good copies, die struck in Bronze but what gives them away is that the almost mint condittion, some are unamed but I have also seen badly named versions.

As shown by these examples originals have a tendency to have been roughly handled, and or worn.

[Guest Darrell]

Here is a fascinating group, which a friend is allowing me to post.

Variously: 4444 L. Nk. David Singh, 117 Lab. Corps / 8077 Naik David Singh, MWS / Subadar David Singh, RIASC / Subadar David Singh, ASC (MT)

Clearly, David Singh (what a name!!) got his bronze BWM in the Labour Corps, moved on into the Military Works Service, and later the Royal Indian Army Service Corps. The once-lowly Lance-Naik of laborers was commissioned as a lofty Subadar and, while he continued to wear his BRONZE war medal, added an unnamed Victory Medal (to which he would NOT have been entitled) to complete the "visual set", especially important when just ribbons were worn.

Efforts are underway to disentangle the tale.

That's an awesome group Ed. Can't wait for the Rickish-like tale to be told

Edited April 9, 2006 by Darrell

[Nick]

Ed

Look forward to hearing this mans tale ! As you say what a modern anglicised name (David Singh) for such a period medal group.

Nick

[Ed_Haynes]

Ed

Look forward to hearing this mans tale ! As you say what a modern anglicised name (David Singh) for such a period medal group.

Nick

The current theory is that he was a Sikh who converted to Christianity. The family does NOT want to discuss this and is apparently rather embarassed by this aspect of the personal history of their ancestor (of whom they are otherwise proud).

Edited April 18, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[notned]

Hello Gents,

I have spotted a Victory medal engraved the official way to a Labour corps gent.. in a local dealers shop...but his name is resoundingly english ....but i cannot remember the exact name, but for sure it was not Indian or Chinese.. but i do remember it had his name and then Labour Corps...thats all,.. oh! and a number preceding of course...

But as Ed would point out...there are many Indian chaps who had english sounding names...

Hmm, are these particularly scarce...

Maybe i should just buy it so we can have it for our archives...

all amnunition for the archives gents...gotta know gotta know...

let me know about it if anyone knows anything...am really curious now...

Kind regards

Paul

( that mad bugger in NZ!)

[Michael Johnson]

Hello Gents,

I have spotted a Victory medal engraved the official way to a Labour corps gent.. in a local dealers shop...but his name is resoundingly english ....but i cannot remember the exact name, but for sure it was not Indian or Chinese.. but i do remember it had his name and then Labour Corps...thats all,.. oh! and a number preceding of course...

But as Ed would point out...there are many Indian chaps who had english sounding names...

There were a number of Labour Corps. That in the British Army qualified for the silver British War Medal and the Victory Medal if they served in a theatre of operations. Many of them were transfers from "fighting units" on account of age or health.

If I recall, there was a Chinese Labour Corps, a Maltese Labour Corps, an Indian Labour Corps, an Arab and Persian Labour Corps, an Egyptian Labour Corps, an East African Labour Corps, and probably more. The MIC lists about 488,000 recipients.

[Old Braggs]

Research is available for members of the South African Native Labour Corps. The rolls are in the South African archive and include more than an average roll. Only about 2,200 bronze medals issued to the S.A.N.L.C. and all of these to men from the 3 British Protectorates (Basutoland, Bechuanaland and Swaziland). Those enlisted in South Africa were denied the medal as the South African Government would not pay for the issue.

Example of one available at the moment: 20764 PTE. J. DEORO. S.A.N.L.C.

Joseph Deoro was from the village of Maseru in Basutoland and enlisted 26 Sept. 1917, giving his place of residence as Tavanas Village, Maseru. He embarked on the troopship Balmoral Castle 14 Nov. 1917. He was discharged 30 Sept. 1918. His record includes notes: 1. Failing to comply with an order. 2. Insolence to a superior officer. 23 Sept. 1918 admitted No. 7 Gen. Hospl. and struck off strength for rations.

Maybe such rolls exist in other countries?

Steve

[Ed_Haynes]

Maybe such rolls exist in other countries?

I fear that these (and other) Indian rolls, if they survived the "good-bye" archival bonfires of the British in 1947, were probably thrown out in a major office cleaning of the Ministry of Defence Medal Offcice in the late-1970s/early-1980s. I keep trying and hoping for a certain answer.

[rdarby]

The roll for the Chinese LC is available in the National Archives. I believe Gregory James' book includes it:

http://ww1centenary.net/2013/12/05/ww1-books-the-chinese-labour-corps-1916-20/

[Mervyn Mitton]

rdarby - thankyou for taking the trouble to add to this old post. Collectors will be pleased to have this extra reference. Mervyn