High ranking Soldbuch or Militärpaß?

[hucks216]

This is just a question to satisfy my curiosity. Maybe I am looking in the wrong places and being a TR paperwork collector that is entirely possible but do WW-1 Soldbücher or Militärpaße exist in collections or come on the market for high ranking officers? I am not looking to buy any but in the past few years I have seen tons of TR related General rank related equivalents but not one for a WW-1 General/Admiral ranked officer. Were they even issued such a thing (I would imagine so as they obviously didn't start off as a General) or did they hand it in when they reached a certain rank and get issued something else?

 

Same goes for major Naval units - do any ever appear for sailors who served on the heavy units at battles such as Jutland, Dogger Bank, the coastal raids etc?

[Bernhard H.Holst]

Hello.

I do follow offers of both Imperial and Third Reich era documents and through your post come to the same conclusion.

What if any regulation(s) existed that covered the issue of General Officers personal i.d. and such is unknown to me.

As to Kaiserliche Marine documents to heavy surface units crew their absence is also noticeable.

Thank you for bringing up this subject .

Bernhard H. Holst

[Bayern]

Hello : Here in Argentine is current to give to generals at their retirement a copy of the personal file and record of services , in the course of a public ceremony . perhaps the german army of WW 1 era used to do the same. 

[hucks216]

6 hours ago, Bayern said:

Hello : Here in Argentine is current to give to generals at their retirement a copy of the personal file and record of services , in the course of a public ceremony . perhaps the german army of WW 1 era used to do the same. 

But that might be because they don't carry a record of their service around with them during their service time whereas a Soldbuch was carried on their person at all times and the Militärpaß was kept at a HQ. But if they were handed in and archived were the majority destroyed during any one of the Allied bombing raids?

[Bernhard H.Holst]

Hello Kevin.

An April 1945 allied air raid on Potsdam  destroyed the depository for imperial military records as you are certainly aware of. I understand that Bavarian, Saxon and Wuerttemberg records  survived in their respective local archives. That is due to their somewhat special status within the German Empire. But we or rather I do not know what official methods existed in regards to Soldbuch / Wehrpass and such documents pertaining to General/Admiral Officers once their service ended.

WW I for Germany ended in an orderly still administratively functioning government.  WW II however was mainly chaos with many personal documents lost for different reasons.

Bernhard H. Holst 

[hucks216]

Well, to put the question another way what is the highest ranked Soldbuch or Militärpaß someone has seen?

[Bayern]

hucks216: Helmut Weize offers the soldbuch und wehrpass of General der infanterie von Obstfelder , WW2 era . 14 000 euros !!! take a look into his page .www weitze militaria Wehrmacht 1933 45 .

[hucks216]

Thank you, I've seen that set but what I meant was for the WW-1 era. WW-2 era General/Admiral examples are pretty common, even the Soldbuch of Hitler's Naval Adjutant is available if you have the money for it and it is a lot more then the von Obstfelder set.

Edited March 5, 2017 by hucks216

[Glenn J]

Chaps,

I am no expert on Soldbücher but I can draw your attention to the paragraph in the "Kriegs-Besoldungs-Vorschrift" of 1914.

§ 55. Soldbücher, sub para 1 states that All officers, officials and soldiers received a Soldbuch on entering a wartime unit if this had not already happened in peacetime.

Regards

Glenn

[hucks216]

Does it state anything about what happens when they complete their service, such as hand it back or keep it?

There must be some explanation for the distinct lack of examples seen. 

[Glenn J]

Just found this at § 88, sub para 1 of the same regulations: Following demobilization, the Soldbücher of those in receipt of monthly salaries (Gehaltsempfänger), i.e. officers, the pay books were to be closed down and returned to the corps intendance branch, stored for a time determined by regulations and then destroyed. Although I don't have a copy to hand of the peacetime pay regulations, one can probably extrapolate that the same thing happened when an officer retired or died in service.

Regards

Glenn

[hucks216]

Thank you for that snippet.That is interesting and may well also explain why so many WW-2 examples survived as such procedures would of been overtaken by the collapse of the Third Reich.

[hucks216]

I've finally found one - currently listed for sale (475 Euros) is the Soldbuch of Generalleutnant Richard Freiherr von Süßkind who commanded 2. Garde-Reserve-Division at the Battle of the Marne.

[Bernhard H.Holst]

Hello Kevin.

Interesting find.

To me of note are the following observations:

1. date of issue this Soldbuch establishes it at the very beginning of hostilities. I believe Reserve formations were established/put on war footing with beginnings of hostilities (here 2.Garde-Reserve Division).

2. Issuing authority is the Feldindentantur of the division. Indicating war establishment/footing( Feld...).

Bernhard H. Holst