Hptm. Frhr. von Biedermann, CO FA(A) 213

[walfisch]

Gents, I'm looking for ANY possible detail as to the: birth, death and service history of Hauptmann Frhr. Ferdinand Irminbert von Biedermann, one-time C.O. of Flieger Abteilung (A) 213. Various sources state that he arrives from KG3 (Kagohl) where he served as an aerial observer to FAA 213 on 1/16 or 17/17. I know he was at FAA 213 on: 4/19 (wrote medal recommendation for pilot Braun), 8/4 (wrote obituary at death of observer Lt. Weil) 8/9, then on leave 8/29/17. Back: 11/6-8/17, to AFP 4 on 1/17/18. Can anyone corroborate, correct or add to these facts? I would be most grateful.

[GreyC]

He might be of Saxon origin, as many of his familiy members left traces in Saxon archives.

http://archiv.sachsen.de/archiv/bestand.jsp?oid=02.03.08.01&bestandid=11248&syg_id=245554

GreyC

[GreyC]

Yup,

The Ehrenrangliste  lists  three v. Biedermann´s at the start of the war as members of FR 108 (Saxon):

Frh. v. Biedermann (Irminbert) Hptm. a.D. 1926

Frh. v. Biedermann (Kerfrid) Hptm. a.D. 1926

Frh. v. Biedermann (Lothar) OL. a.D. 1926

there was also a Hptm. v. B. listed at 

IR 178

Frh. v. Biedermann Hptm. who served with  10. IR. during the Weimar Republic, at least in 1926.

You might find more infos on "your" guy in: 

Erich Blohm, Ernst Vogel, Gottfried Saupe: Das Kgl. Sächs. Schützen-Regiment „Prinz Georg“ Nr. 108. (Dresden 1926. Band 31 des sächs. Anteils der Erinnerungsblätter).

GreyC

 

Edited March 19, 2017 by GreyC

[arb]

Hello,

I can offer the following:

Irminbert Konrad Bertold Woldemar Freiher von Biedermann was born 17.07.1887 in Straßburg.  He entered the Saxon Schuützen R. 108 as a Fahnenjunker on 14.03.1907.  Promoted to Fähnrich on 19.11.1907, he received a commission as a Leutnant dated 14.02.1907 on 14.08.1908.  Oberleutnant on 25.09.1914 and Hauptmann on 11.08.1916

Wartime assignments:

02.08.14-06.02.15          in Schützen R. 108

07.02.15-11.07.15          in Flieger Ers. Abtl. 6

12.07.15-22.03.16          Jagdflieger

23.03.16-16.01.17          Kampfgeschwader 3

17.01.17-30.12.18          Flieger Abtl. (A) 213

31.12.18-14.07.19          Inspektion d. Fliegertruppen

15.07.19-31.03.20          Schuützen R. 108

Andy

[GreyC]

Hi arb,

this seems to be him, although walfisch has him as FERDINAND Irminbert.

Irminbert was severely wounded while with Schützenregiment / FR 108 (Schützenregiment=Füsilierregiment) as stated in the Verlustliste of 7th Oct. 1914 (left arm). So it makes sense that he then applied for the air-service after convalecence as he was probably no longer fit for the trenches.

GreyC

Edited March 19, 2017 by GreyC

[walfisch]

GreyC and Andy!!! Gents, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to dig through your resources to provide a lot of very interesting data on von Biedermann. I do believe my original first name of Ferdinand is now not correct. I believe you have zeroed in correctly on the right von B. I am happy to add this to my bio of von B for an upcoming article in Over The Front here in the US. My only concern lies with some conflicts with his late 1917 and 1918 postings.

I have von B on leave from 213 (8/9 to 8/29/17). Then it gets murky. Here's what I have including your additions from 8/9/17 forward......

08-09-17 – vB on leave thru 8/29/17 (DG)

08-30-17 – vB.at 213 (DG)

11-08-17 – vB departs for AFP 4 thru 1/17/18  (DG)

12-30-18 – vB leaves FAA 213 (Andy GMIC) ????

12-31-18 – vB joins Inspektion d. Fliegertruppen (Andy-GMIC) ???

07-15-19 – vB joins Schutzen R. 108 through 3-31-20 (Andy-GMIC)

1926 – Ehrenrangliste SSR 108 vB still in service (GreyC-GMIC)

And, Here's the cast of characters that appear as COs from 8/29/17 forward.....

Biedermann          01-17-17 thru 08-09-17 (Leave 8-9 to 29-17)

Biedermann          08-30-17 thru 11-08-17 to AFP 4

Post                       08-29-17 thru 09-17-17

Pretzel                   09-17-17 thru 09-23-17

Plaeschke             01-17-18 thru 02-10-18

Usbeck                  __-__-18 thru 08-29-18

Vissing                   08-29-18 thru 11-21-18

No need to make this your project. I just wanted to show you where I was thanks in large part to your terrific data and research. THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN! Rob

[GreyC]

Hi walfisch,

glad the info is helpful. As far as the Ehrenrangliste is concerned, Irminbert is listed as Hauptmann a.D. in 1926, yet there is another vB. listed as Hptm. still active in the Reichswehr who seems to have served  in IR 178. I am fairly certain that this was not Irminbert but some relative.

GreyC

[Soderbaum]

Hi Walfisch

I do think you can safely write that Irminbert was the commander of FAA 213 from 16.01.1917 until 17.01.1918. The other names you have there were "only" stvs while Irminbert was away some times. Before that he had apparently served within the Saxon FFA 29 during 1915 and later in 1916 in two Kastas within KG 3, the later which he lead. When he left FAA 213 he did become some sort of Überwachungs Offizier for Fliegerwaffen attached to AFP 4. He might have ended up the War in this position.

After Irminbert, Hptm Plaeschke took over the command of FAA 213 and he rather certain led the unit until demobilization. Like Irminbert he was "away" much, so Usbek and Vissing and some others were only stvs(Vissing also trained to become a leader here)  

Btw, have anyone checked any of these files in Dresden ?  I am interested if they might have KRLs or similar documents.

Gunnar

 

[Dave Danner]

13 hours ago, GreyC said:

Hi walfisch,

glad the info is helpful. As far as the Ehrenrangliste is concerned, Irminbert is listed as Hauptmann a.D. in 1926, yet there is another vB. listed as Hptm. still active in the Reichswehr who seems to have served  in IR 178. I am fairly certain that this was not Irminbert but some relative.

GreyC

The Reichswehr officer, formerly in IR 178, was Wolf Freiherr v. Biedermann, later Generalmajor in the Luftwaffe. 

Irminbert, known as Irmin, died in Hannover on 23.7.1954.  The 1982 Gothaisches Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels lists him as an Oberstleutnant a.D., so he was apparently recalled for service in World War II.  He is not in deZeng and Stankey's list of Luftwaffe officers, so he was likely a Heer officer. He also has no file in the active Heer officer files in the US National Archives, so he was probably d.R., z.V., or z.D.

Kerfrid is actually Kerfried, although for some reason he was later known as Konrad (Konrad Kerfried Childebert Woldemar). He was born on 17.9.1887 (two months after Irminbert) and died in Soviet captivity in Tbilisi in 1945. Kerfried was also in SFR 108, but went to BrigEB 46 on mobilization and was severely wounded on 30.8.14.  He later served in EIR 23, RJB 26, as Adj. of the Saxon Kadettenkorps and as Ord.Offz. on the staff of the 19.ED. He was an Oberst in the Heer in World War II in Wehrersatzwesen (Wehrmeldeamt Borna, Wehrbezirk Leipzig II, Wehrbezirk Döbeln).

The other SFR 108 officer was Lothar, born 2.3.1898 in Leipzig.  After World War I, he was promoted to Dr.jur et rer. pol. and was an Oberregierungsrat.  He was a Maj.d.R. in IR 29, and was shot by the Russians in Berlin on 25.4.1945.

Irminbert, Kerfried and Lothar were first cousins.  Wolf was a second cousin.  

 

 

[walfisch]

GreyC - THANK you again for confirming Irminbert as a Hptm a.D. in 1926.

Davd D - This is terrific! So glad you could clearly identify the cousins which only appear confusing without your careful separation of who is who! 

Gunnar - Fabulous additional data too!! I am very glad you could clear up just who and why all the additional stvs that appeared to overlap with von B's service time at 213! Now it makes sense!

Gunnar - Do you know which Kasta von B commanded and when? Kasta 17 WAS stationed with 213 at Anneux from early Oct 1916 through @12-31-16. I wonder if von B. was its CO???

Thank you all for this terrific information! Rob

[Soderbaum]

Hi Rob

I have that Irminbert was the leader of "old" KG 3/13 in the autumn of 1916 so they did not share airfield with FAA 213. I do not have exact dates, thats the reason for the question about his file in Dresden. He do have an file in Freiburg but that file basically dont contain any WW1 

Gunnar

[walfisch]

Hi Gunnar, 

Thanks again for the Kasta 13 ID for Hptm v. B! Very helpful!!! Would you mind reviewing my outline for the first CO of 213, Hptm. Ernst Böhmer. My older records show he was with 213 from 1/16/16 thru 8/9/17. Thanks to your confirmation, I now know that v.B became CO 1/16/17.  Rob

[Soderbaum]

Hi Rob

I do not have a complete service record for Hptm Ernst Böhmer (O). Born 29.06.1885 in Berlin. Military service within FAR 46 and Lehr Reg Fa.SchSch. He joined FFA 11 when the War started and served there until summer 1915. Then he became the leader of the FlgSch at Jüterbog "until" he took command of FAA 213.

After FAA 213 I loose the track of him, but he might have ended up as commander of FAA 284 in the later part of 1918. Some awards: PKrO4 PHOvH3mSchw EK1 PV PFlE WF3bmSchw MK2

Gunnar

[GreyC]

Hi,

according to the Ehrenrangliste he was a Hauptmann in the Weimar Republic Reichsheer serving with the 2. Kraftfahr-Abteilung in 1926.

GreyC

[walfisch]

Gunnar! Thank you! Great new bits about Hptm. Böhmer....birth date, Juterbog and awards. Glad to add this. Speculation about FAA 284 is interesting. Sure wish we knew for sure what he did after leaving 213. Here's some current speculation.....

08/09/17 - FA A221 - to 21 Aug 17.  OR to FA(A) 221 on 8/9/17

08/22/17 - AFP 4 or (AFP 2??) 

GreyC - Thanks for specifics on Hptm v.B and his exact 1926 posting! 

Rob

[Soderbaum]

Hi Rob

The "Böhmer" who was stv of FAA 221 shortly(came from AFP 4) was another officer with the name Boehmer from IR 93.

A speculation regarding Ernst Böhmer is that after his service as commander of FAA 213 is that he possible had an connection to the Marine Air Force like coordinator between the Army Air Force and the Marine Air Force. It is only based on that when he received the Hohenzollern award late 1917 (dont knew award date) that he is mentioned in an Marine source... but this is only speculation.

Gunnar 

[walfisch]

Gunnar! No wonder the confusion! THANK YOU for sorting out the TWO! I am glad you add the speculation about the possible Marine Air Force connection. It all helps! I note the Neal O'Connor could not ID the award date of Bohmer's Hohenzollern either. At least you can state 1917. Best! Rob

[Dave Danner]

Plato Boehmer served in IR 93 from 1901-11. He was in IR 21 when the war started and later went to the Fliegertruppe.  Despite the IR 93 connection (he also retired with the uniform of that regiment), he did not receive the Friedrichkreuz during the war.

Plato Boehmer's HOH3X was gazetted in the Militär-Wochenblatt on 12.6.1917.  Ernst Böhmer's HOH3X was gazetted on 9.8.1917.  The delay from award to publication in the MWB could be from a matter of weeks to 1 to 2 months.

[walfisch]

Hi Dave, THANK YOU for following up on Gunnar's correction regarding the confusion of the two similar sounding names: Böhmer vs Boehmer. I am glad you told me the full name of Boehmer! I must now start a new thread thanks to your contribution.....