Jump to content
142bravo

Information Needed On Lord Kitchener WW1 Memorial Scroll

Recommended Posts

Have any members ever seen one of these Lord Kitchener Memorial Scrolls before? It's the one I have seen and since owning it I have never been able to find out any information on it - I've always been curious to know more about it?

It is period framed and is 14.5" x 10" in size and with a scroll reading: "In Memory of Lord Kitchener of Khartoum Soldier Statesman and Administrator" . On the bottom there is a blank area and written in old ink is the added wording and name of a soldier:  "Also Of Jack Bernard"  and underneath it reads: "Who answered the call of Lord Kitchener For His King & Country":

I suspect that this was a memorial scroll privately purchased where families would record the name of their fallen loved one - maybe for a 1916 Kitchener Volunteer KIA?

It is a very nicely done memorial tribute to a fallen soldier with a very impressive center picture of Lord Kitchener - there is no makes information anywhere on it at all.

Does anyone have any information on this type of memorial scroll?

Thanks!  Bruce

kit 1.jpg

kit 2.jpg

kit 3.jpg

kit 4.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bruce,

Have never seen this particular type before perhaps it is a Canadian produced piece?

A check of the CWGC site for a Jack Bernard reveals no exact match but there are six Men with the Christian Name of John, and I have found that Jack can be used as an informal reference to John before.

Interestingly there is a Canadian Casualty with the Initial J who served with the 22nd Battalion Canadian Infantry (Quebec Regiment) with the service number 121026 who died on 4th October 1916, will try and find his service record and establish a first name.

Nice looking item and a nice addition to your collection.

Simon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Simon for the very interesting information you provided - very much appreciated..

What has me stumped and is different is that every example of a Canadian family/private purchase memorial scroll I have had or seen - always seemed to be infused with a heavy use of Canadian patriotic images ie. a Canadian flag crossed against the Union Jack - a Canadian beaver - caribou or some sort of distinct "Canadian content".

Canadians in those days while very patriotic and loyal to the Crown were also extremely proud Canadians -and everything marketed for sale of a patriotic nature always seemed to display distinctly Canadian themes.

When I first bought it from the UK I immediately felt it was a tribute to a fallen soldier recruited in England during the Kitchener Volunteers recruiting period - but as you say this might quite possibly be a CEF soldier!

Doesn't seem to be a common type memorial scroll does it? Will sure pursue the Canadian aspect of it and keep you posted if I learn more.

I've posted a few photos of a private family purchased memorial scroll to a local area soldier sadly KIA in 1916.

Bruce

cef1.jpg

cef2.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lovely example and I would agree with you regarding the normal patriotic emblems usually used, As I said have not seen this Kitchener one before but of course that doesn't mean a great deal:D

Look forward to seeing what you can find.

Simon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fascinating!  If it is in fact to 'Jack' bernard, he's have been one of quiote a small number of Quebec Anglos in the famous 'Vandoos'.  Le Vingt-Deuxime Battalion was the only French unit in the CEF - that is, in which French was the working language and language of command - and was raised in an attempt to make a not-very-popular war and an English speaking [and largely Anglican] army more palatable to RC Francophones.

OTOH, there was pretty clearly a major industry after the Great war in patritoic certificates, produced by and for towns, regiments, and various other groups, and its not beyond the realm of possibility that somebody grabbed an English piece and 're-purposed' it for a Cdn. soldier.

Looking forward to any more information you may turn up, Bravo!  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After much searching about have found another unnamed example of this scroll which is ahown on the attached link.

Hopefully I am not breaking any copyright law as we are not using the image for financial gain but education.

Doesn't shed much light on the one above but shows others exist!

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/3351050

Simon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Gents for the information.  Very interesting to see another example I wonder where this example is located (UK)?  Thanks for finding it after doing so much leg work Simon as I came up with nothing at all in locating anything similar.  With the heavy casualties in 1916 it is sure strange to not find others examples which may have been bought during or after the War.  I wonder if it might have been more significant for purchase by the NOK of soldiers who were killed in 1916?

Can't find any sort of maker information on the scroll - unlike the Canadian ones I have seen which seemed to have very small printing with the makers information on the bottom of the scroll or on the back.

Even narrowing down the search for Bernard with any forename or initial J. who died in 1916 -  nothing definitive that is a sure match.  For French/Quebec Canadians commonly Jacques = Jack (in English) and so far I haven't found any Canadian Archives Attestation Papers for Jack Bernard and nothing shows up in other data base searches I've done.

As Peter points out with the large post war industry in producing these certificates there would have been a great variety of examples one could purchase with various patriotic themes so a family wherever they lived could choose one that appealed to them.  Even not as a Canadian themed scroll - the patriotic nature of this one would be very moving for a KIA 1916 soldier's family.

It saddens me to think that such moving tributes to soldiers killed bravely serving their Nation in many cases don't remain and get passed down in the family or offered to museums for proper display. (I found one for sale under a stack of old text books covered in layers of thick dust in a second hand store assorted junk pile!)  :mad:

The search continues!   Bruce

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bruce

Perhaps we have been over thinking the connection between Kitchener and Bernard. Your wonderful Canadian Memorial Scroll clearly states the Mans rank and Regiment and yet poor Jack Bernard has only his name, Could he have been a member of one of the civilian services or Merchant Navy etc and that is why we have no exact match, He could even have been someone completely unconnected with any Service which his poor Mother decided to commemorate on this illustrated scroll as he died in the same year as the iconic Kitchener!

All the best Simon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Blog Comments

    • Brian, Thanks for initiating this discussion. For me, it’s a combination of the thrill of the chase, the history behind the item, and the aesthetics, although this latter factor may seem a bit strange to some. To illustrate this, the very first thing I collected as a kid in the 1950’s was a Belgian WW1 medal, for service in 1914-18, which is bell shaped, with a very striking profile of a very dignified soldier, wearing an Adrian helmet which bears a laurel wreath. It was the image that
    • Thank you for sharing your story, it was most interesting and greatly appreciated, it makes this blog well worth the time to post. Regards Brian  
    • Hello I started collecting when I found my first Mauser cartridges in a field next to my parents' house next to Armentières. I was eight years old.  Then shrapnel, schrapnell balls, darts... That's how I became a historian. When I was 18, we used to walk through the fields with a metal detector to find our happiness. It was my time in the army as a research-writer in a research centre that made me love the orders of chivalry. I've been collecting them for 24 years now. Christophe
    • Thank you for your most interesting comment. The thrill of the chase didn't interest me in the beginning but over time it started to overshadow the act of simply adding yet another medal or group to the collection. Regards Brian  
    • I know the way I got into collecting is like so many other people; through a sibling. I also know that my love of history is barely unique in a place like this. So I know I have a shared background with many people. A less shared area - perhaps - is that I've always loved the thrill of the chase. When I decide I want, say, a 1914 trio with an original bar, to a cavalry unit, the utter thrill of getting out there and, (a) finding groups that fit the criteria and, (b) comparing them re: ranks, uni
×
×
  • Create New...