Rarest Afrikakorps Boards ....

[Chris Boonzaier]

... especially since these, unlike most, were actually there....

You can see the traces of the FP, these were removed and slides were put on, I am not sure of the slides meaning? Anyone know?

These are the 334th (Motorised) Feldpost Abteilung of the 334th Division.... 100% untouched...

Can anyone offer anything rarer ? :-)

[Bayern]

Hello Chris : I am nearly sure that the lace means the status of Kapitulantenanwarter granted to the unteroffizier to which belonged the SB .in this case the lace was carried at the base of the SB

[Laurence Strong]

I don't believe there is such a thing as the 334 Feldpost Abtielung....a Division had a Feldpostamt with1 Postmaster and 17 FP officials of various ranks as per KStN 2251.........

 

https://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn22511apr35.htm

 

 

 

 

Cheers

Larry

Edited January 15, 2018 by Laurence Strong

[Chris Boonzaier]

39 minutes ago, Laurence Strong said:

I don't believe there is such a thing as the 334 Feldpost Abtielung....a Division had a Feldpostamt with1 Postmaster and 17 FP officials of various ranks as per KStN 2251.........

 

https://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn22511apr35.htm

 

 

 

 

Cheers

Larry

Sorry, My error, (Motorised) Feldpostamt 334 ... http://dak.webseiten.cc/einheiten/heer/334-infanterie-division/

[Laurence Strong]

Personally I think they are a humped up set of boards as FP/HV items are not desirable to "most" people.

 

They are not "official" FP boards - to which having said that, I would not discount them as a replacement set needed in the field.

 

The wear of non issue boards with a Regimental number "not centered" on the board with no waffenfarbe makes little sense to me. And an unconventional way of demonstrating the rank advancement doesn't make me warm and fuzzy. An HV/FP official that was going from NCO to Officer rank would wear the collar tabs of the level he is attempting to achieve.....as seen in attached photo

 

It's a little big will fix it this afternoon after work...He is also wearing the correct style of boards for a FP/HV NCO.

 

 

Cheers

Larry

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Laurence Strong

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

I received these originally (15-16 years ago) as is from a non Militaria source, so I don't see any possibility of "collector improvement". In fact, it was only getting them back last week that I was able to find the connection to FP. My collector friend had them in a drawer unidentified and forgotten since 2002-3.

I found a mention on the German site that the Feldpost officially adopted standard Lemon Yellow signal boards in 1943 to simplify supply and avoid complicated production bottlenecks, and I assume given the small number of Feldpostamt men in Africa at the time they had to adapt and show initiative as it is unlikely that there was anything specially created for them.

I am reminded of our local now sadly departed Totenkopf man who told me he had taken over his KIA cousins Army Schirmmütze and simply exchanged the cockade and wreath for the Totenkopf, and that was his schirmütze... I am always very scptical of "out of the norm" but such things did exist.

Other than knowing the origin had no connection to Militaria, I think the deciding factor for those who "believe the piece, not the story", is probably that if these boards were naked (ie with no metal on them) they would sell in 10 minutes... with the devices they will probably be veeeery difficult to move... so the thing that makes then interesting also makes them worth less than if they had been simple boards... ;-)

I am guessing it was left up to FP-Amt (mot) 334 to figure out themselves how they got their tropical gear together... Such a small unit probably had to "Demerde" as the french would say.

 

[Laurence Strong]

I have only seen one (1) lightweight Saharina style tunic - and I have been looking over the years - and it had regular Zahlmeister boards. 

Had the boards been I. Their original format with the FP devices I would be interested. As configured I would not want them in my collection. 

 

Yes there were iregularities in wear. After all there is a thread into many pages on WAF about it with photo evidence. 

I would be interested in seeing the order stating yellow waffenfarbe was authorized for use.  Remember the 334 Infantry Division surrendered en mass May 1943......

To me these in the current configuration have to many non regulations to them for my liking

Enjoy

 

cheers

Larry

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi, apparently at the beginning of July 1943 things had gotten so bad with supply of NCO insignia for Feldpost men that there was an official order to change to Heeres insignia.

"Es war eine Folge des weiter unten wiedergegebenen, inzwischen erlassenen, aber noch nicht veröffentlichten Befehls des OKW vom 7. 7. 43 über die geänderte Rechtsstellung der Fp-Beamten. Danach mußten die Fp-Bea. im Uffz.Rang andere Rangabzeichen und Kragenspiegel erhalten, nämlich die allgemeinen militärischen mit den Buchstaben FP. Man wollte also schon jetzt den milit. Nachschubweg nicht mehr mit auslaufenden Ausrüstungsstücken belasten."

I think it would probably not be a stretch of the imagination to assume that in the runup to July 43 units would already have been solving the problem in other way, especially a fringe unit in the desert.

After the arican Campaign the division was reformed in Italy, where I understand Tropical gear was used again?

The Citronen Gelb for Feldpost are mentioned in a number of references, including the Feldpost site...

"Die Waffenfarbe der Feldposteinheiten ist zitronengelb, auf den Schulterstücken ist eine Plakette mit den Buchstaben "FP" aus weißem Leichtmetall angebracht. "

Best

Chris

[Laurence Strong]

Would you be so kind as to provide a link for both quotes so I can read the full article/thread

 

thanks

 

cheers

Larry

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

 

there are a number of references with the Citron Gelb... here is the one I used...

http://www.feldpost-archiv.de/09-arbeit-der-feldpost.shtml

Then the post from this which quotes the Archiv für deutsche Postgeschichte, Heft 1/1971

http://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/index.php/Thread/10513-Feldpostamt-Soldaten-od-Beamte/

 

[Laurence Strong]

Thanks Chris, I appreciate that....

Not arguing with you that "Citrongelb" is incorrect. I am saying that in it's present configuration I don't like the board....had it had the original FP devices only I would see it as a sweet set of boards.....both of your quotes state that the FP devices were to be used.........

 

And yes there is an order HM 44, No 47. dealing with the Rechtsstellung der Feldpost which is probably what the forum is talking about in 7. 7. 43. So, I do stand corrected. Interesting to read, Thanks for the new info

 

 

 

So they have been in hand for the last 15 years or so....were  they configured as shown? So who had them for the 58 years before you got them, and can you be 100% positive they were not messed with in those decades??

 

Hey I will be the first to agree that odd things happened during the war in regards to regulations.....

 

I will be back

 

 

Cheers

Larry

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi Larry,

 

no Problemo, I am delighted a discussion has evolved... they seem to be rare on online forums these days, as conman as they were 10 years ago !

I must admit I can not remember exactly where I had them from, but I bought them just after I arrived in Germany (time flies, that is longer than 15 years ago when i calculate it!) At the time I was mainly a flea market buyer and ads in our local newsletters. It was just one of many things I had that for purely fiscal reasons at the time must have been pretty cheap, and was definitely not from a dealer or collector.

Lets assume that a naked pair of citron Gelb tropical boards would sell in a day online, but these are going to be a monster to move... I think the pertinent question is, even if they had been in collector hands... why would someone have messed with a good set of boards, and in a way that only modern day googling could explain what they were. I don't think I was able to even guestimate what they were when I had them first time around.

Although we now wear civvie clothes, I worked for years in a small uniformed department in a large civvie uniformed company. As our cell was completely removed from the rest of the company in the disciplinary - admin - supply chain, mostly out of site out of mind to the rest, we had a lot of leeway and exercised a lot of initiative when it came to adapting our uniforms to suit our tastes... At some point our manager, who not having any experience with the rest of the uniformed mass realised what liberties we were taking, and changed us into Civvieclothes..

Fot that reason i can quite understand why a cell of 18 men attached to a division, in the confusion of Tunisia, from a branch whose supply lines were apparently struggling, may have taken the initiative with their straps.

The traces of the "FP" are very evident... in fact, if the slides were simply removed one would assume that someone had just removed the FP on a set of FP boards... the slides are the bugger that makes people questions the boards, although from the fading, they were worn on the boards ....

A little bit of research shows I may be on the wrong track though.... the 334th division was in Italy from October 43 until the end of the war.... I see many photos of Tropical uniforms being worn in Italy... It may be even more likely that these were not Akrika boards but rather set up as the FP would have had them from late 43... ergo Italian campaign....

 

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

blowing the dust off (Time accumulation, not Africa) I assume it could also have been worn like this?

I find ZERO info on insignia uniforms worn by Luftwaffe Feldpost, in fact, zero info on Luftwaffe Feldpost at all... does anyone have any thoughts in that direction?

[Bayern]

15 hours ago, Chris Boonzaier said:

Hi,

blowing the dust off (Time accumulation, not Africa) I assume it could also have been worn like this?

I find ZERO info on insignia uniforms worn by Luftwaffe Feldpost, in fact, zero info on Luftwaffe Feldpost at all... does anyone have any thoughts in that direction?

Chris : The lace slide was carried at the base of the SB