Picklehaube Gold or Garbage

[Alex K]

Hi all, a bit of advice concerning a chance purchase which has been lurking in my store for quite a while. I'm no Picklehaube expert, but several months ago I chanced upon the attached in a bric-a-brac shop, to me it looked right, felt right and smelled right, so I decided to take a punt on it and bought it.

Now for the nitty gritty, was it a good purchase or have I wasted my money, in all honesty it was priced the same as the average Indian reproduction, so if it's a lemon, no great financial disaster, (It will end up the Grandchildrens dressing up box most probably). or have I chanced upon a reasonable deal?

The closest I can establish is with this example, image credit indicated

 

for info all the fittings are post and nuts/washers, except for the two holding the visor trim which are substantial split pins, thr visor does show leather shrinkage

 

Any comments appreciated

 

regards

 

Alex K

[Farkas]

Hi Alex

i hope my reply prompts those wizards  who know the finer signs to put you out of your misery (or not...) with a definitive answer...

First though,  regardless, i think it looks great.

It looks better than the example you picture.

If it’s original then you’ve got a beauty and a bargain, if not original then still a beauty. To me, the fittings look undisturbed on yours and with the plate flush and tight... and the inside is lovely, the colours and condition is great looking.

fingers crossed for you

best wishes

tony

 

 

[Alex K]

Hi Tony, thanks for the reply, much appreciated, the helm is basically as I found it, completely untouched by me, save a quick wipe over with a soft cloth to remove surface gunge off the leather, all fittings are tight and look as if they havn't been disturbed, the only complaint if I have one, is the shrinkage of the visor which makes the brass trim slightly loose, I'm no expert but wonder (Fake or not) it the trim could or should be re-aligned to make it fit tighter,

 

In the end I think it, (most of it) could be original, hope so, if not then it actually still makes a nice display piece, and as for the cost, you win some, you lose some, no great financial input, I'll wait see if any of the Guru's step in.

 

regards

 

Alex

[Bayern]

Hello Alex K . I am not a wizard ,but some details of your pickelhaube are too genuine for a fake one

[Alex K]

Hi thanks for the positive comments, as I mentioned earlier, I hope my instinct will prove right, its difficult to take interior shots but this is an image of the 4 studs and nuts attaching the eagle to the helmet, they look as if they havn't been disturbed for a long time, (to me,) no additional holes in the helmet

Edited July 8, 2018 by Alex K

[Farkas]

Hi Alex

looks like it’s a good result!

well done 

best wishes

tony

[Alex K]

Thanks, I hope (and think, personally) that my modest investment turned good.

 

regards

Alex

[monfort1]

Hi

 

Are you sure that 2 officer "Kokarden" are the best regulation for this helmet????

 

[Alex K]

Hi I don't know that's why I'm asking the questions, I'm no expert on picklehaube's, maybe they were replaced at some time, you may know better than I do, comments are welcome, they do look similar to the ones shown on the Kaisersbunker image example I posted

 

regards

 

Alex

Edited July 9, 2018 by Alex K

[monfort1]

Hi

 

For me, the Kokarden (officer type,) and the chinscales should not be mounted on this helmet.

 

 The KB picture shows a genuine OR's M67. Yours is quite different.

[Alex K]

Hi Thanks for the additional information, can I clarify, the Kokarden I accept, are officer grade and may not belong to this helm, what type if any would it have had, again, the chinscales you say should also not be attached to this helmet, what, if any, would it have been attached, would you like to pass comment on the remainder of the helmet, is it authentic, in part or whole, if authentic what time period is it likely to be, or are you saying its a fantasy piece, as I mentioned in my first post, I do not collect head-dress but mainly orders decorations and medals, it was a gamble when I bought it, at a modest price, if you gamble you have two results, you win or you lose, I gambled and am prepared to lose if that's the result

 

regards

[monfort1]

Hi

Chinscales are OFF type.

 

I can't say more about the helmet.

 

[Alex K]

Ok, thanks, one final question then, would the chinstrap be a leather one?

regards

[Farkas]

Don't give up asking Alex.

some kind gents out there will answer in good time 

in the meantime.... I don't really see a problem here yet, if there is one at all.

as you realise your helm is not the same as the example you found, but that does not mean there is a problem surely?

 

the pic of yours shows it has:

a different shape shell - yours is less rounded

a different 'plate' - the bottom of the eagle is wider on yours

a different chin strap - yours taper more to the clasp

a different base to the spike mounting - yours has four 'holes', the example two

 

Until someone tells you what it is I wouldn't change a thing. 

and then if both strap and cockades are original and of the period of the helm I see no problem and surely there are many scenarios to choose from to explain the mismatch.

ie if worn in combat the cockades on it may have been more suitable being black rather than a stand out design with white. 

and.. the example has a metal chin strap so why not yours?

 

so again, until someone tells you what it is don't assume anything is 'wrong' 

perhaps some pictures of the strap and cockades alone would establish if those too are original period or modern replacements.....

the body of it has already passed that test surely.

hope I haven't gone on too much

best wishes

tony

On ‎08‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 02:22, Bayern said:

Hello Alex K . I am not a wizard ,but some details of your pickelhaube are too genuine for a fake one

 

[Alex K]

Hi Tony, thanks for the reassuring comments, clearly I would like it (or most of it) to be authentic and original, I accept that it may be a marriage of different parts over its lifetime, but original none-the-less, as I mentioned previously, my in-depth knowledge on haubes is not great, medals are my thing, the price I paid, was reasonable, and I gambled, you win some, you lose some, prepared for that eventuality, so I will in the meantime continue to educate myself as much as I can, in the end I still think its a nice looking "Conversation piece", for those who show any interest.

Just to add some more confusion to my "troubled mind", I came across this, described as "Prussian Dragoon Pickelhaube - ca. 1882" seems to show,

brass scales which taper like mine

Flatter dome like mine??

appears to have more than two ventilation holes, like mine

Wappen like mine

cockade on the left side, cant see the right side but assume, there may be one, but mannschaften type,

am I going mad!!

 

If I didn't know any better, to me at least, it could actually be my helmet!

 

Edited July 12, 2018 by Alex K
addition

[monfort1]

Hi

 

The officer helmets do not wear two identical Kokarden

The officer helmets do have stars insteed of nuts and screws at the base of the spike

The rosette, fixing the chinscale are for officer. It should be steel screws and nuts.

For me, this helmet is mixing pieces which should not be mixed. And no explanation to be found with any war stories.

Furthermore, I do not see a Dragoon helmet, which has square leather visor.

 

All in all, if you happy with your helmet, everything goes well.

[Alex K]

Hi, your comments confuse me slightly now, the above comments refer to which helmet?

I've accepted that there are two officer cockades and rosettes incorrectly fitted to my helmet, they or it should be manschafften type, the second example Prussian 1882, shows only one, which looks like a manschafften, the second one, if fitted cannot be seen so that is an assumption.

it is clear from both images, they are not officer helmets, I was not saying that mine is an officers helmet, as the spike base does not have stars, (That much I know)

The dragoon description was not mine but the site where I found the image (Militaria dealer), perhaps they mis-labelled the item themselves, I agree that dragoon normally have squared visors, (am learning as I go along).

Yes I'm pleased with my helmet, for the price I paid, I accept that there a few issues with the kokades and associated bits and pieces and thank you for pointing them out, all information supplied, whilst sometimes not one wants to hear, is helpful in expanding ones knowledge, thats why I ask questions, but think that the basic helmet is sound. I will concentrate on correcting the wrongs, I might even find out the approximate period that these helmets eminate from

 

regards

 

[Farkas]

Hi Alex

If you get a chance take a look at this site

Good luck!

tony

[Alex K]

Hi Tony, thanks for the link, I have actually been on that site, very informative it is as well, my first comparison photo came from there, it makes me think, given the dome shape of mine, that its a  mid period one that's about all I can assume at this moment.

The cockades, fixing and possible brass scales seems to be the issue from comments made by member Montfort1so I have to take that on board, and I've removed them temporarily, photos attached, my problem, is that the second comparison, from the dealers site, whilst incorrectly labelled as a dragoon helmet is actually the closest in appearance in most ways to mine, confusing to me.

Oh well, I have plenty of time and will soldier on (No pun intended) until at some point what should be there will be there again, parts for genuine parts for these helmets do come up for sale, I would just like to thank those who made an input

regards