Looking for info on Major Arthur Graf von Normann-Ehrenfels

[Claudio]

Dear forumites,

I am looking for information about the above mentioned presumably wurttembergian officer who served before and during  WWI and survived the great war until the 30-ies maybe later. Any info about his date of birth/death and awarded orders or medals are very appreciated. He got a Württembergian Friedrichsorden 1th class with swords and a LS Prussian cross for 25 years.

Maybe is this the guy : Graf ARTHUR Karl Konstantin August Edwin Lebrecht von Normann-Ehrenfels

Thank you very much in advance for your inputs and comments.

Best regards,

 

C

[The Prussian]

Hello Claudio!

In the ranklist of honour I´ve found a Major a.D. Graf v. Normann-Ehrenfels from Gren.Rgt.119. His last duty in the war was in Bekleidungsamt XIII.AK (Clothng office XIII.Army Corps)

He became reactivated by the outbreak of war.

Last peace-time entry in ranklist 1913 as Hauptmann in Gren.Rgt.119 (2nd company).

Medal: Ritterkreuz 1.class of "Hausorden der Wachsamkeit oder vom weißen Falken"

Hauptmann: 20.4.10

But I don´ t know if he is it, because I couldn´t find any infos about the medals you mentioned...

[arb]

Claudio,

I think this is your man:

Andy

 

Arthur Gr. von Normann-Ehrenfels  (05.07.1874-04.02.1943)  * in Ehrenfels  † in Frieburg i. Breisgau

03.05.19            unter Belassung in d. Komdo. nach Preußen in die württ. Etatsstelle b. d. Eisenb.  Abtl. d. gr. Gen. St. vers.

04.10.15            Ritterkreuz 1. Kl. d. Friedrichs Ordens m. Schw.

19.06.12-1914       Chef 5./2. Garde Feldart. R.  (Potsdam) 

13.09.11-19.06.12   überz. Hptm.

1910-13.09.11       in 1./2. Garde Feldart. R.  (Potsdam)

1909               in 6./2. Garde Feldart. R.  (Potsdam)

1908               in 2./2. Garde Feldart. R.  (Potsdam)

1907               in 5./2. Garde Feldart. R.  (Potsdam)

18.08.04-1906       in 3./2. Garde Feldart. R.  (Potsdam)

01.10.02-00.07.04   k.z. Milit. Reit Inst.

1901-01.10.02       Adj. II./Feldart. R. 13  (Canstatt)

1900               in 6./Feldart. R. 13  (Canstatt)

1899               in 11./Feldart. R. 13  (Ulm)

1896-1898           in 12./Feldart. R. 13  (Ulm)

27.01.95-1895       in 5./Feldart. R. 13  (Ulm)

27.01.95            Sek.Lt.

21.04.94            Port. Fähnr.

29.07.93            als Fahnenj. in Feldart. R. 13 eingetret.

 Major     27-01-18 Yy

Hptm.     13-09-11 H9h

Oberlt.   25-02-05 A

Leutn.    27-01-95 O2o

[Dave Danner]

Andy's is the correct officer. As he notes, he was a Württemberg officer, but he spent much of his later service commanded to the Prussian Army with the 2.GFAR. His other known awards are the Eisernes Kreuz 2.Klasse (and likely the 1.Klasse) and the k.u.k. Österreich-Ungarisches Militärverdienstkreuz 3.Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration 3.Klasse. 

The GR 119 officer was his brother, Eberhard, *5.5.1873 in Ehrenfels. 

• Hauptmann a.D., zuletzt GR 119 (22.4.1914 d. Abschied bewilligt)
• 5.10.1916 Charakter als Maj.a.D. erhalten
• 25.2.1917 Patent seines Dienstgrades erhalten.

He served in the Ersatz-Bataillon of GR 119 during the war. His known awards are the Kgl. Württembergisches Wilhelmskreuz mit Schwertern (21.2.16), the Kgl. Württembergischer Friedrichs-Orden, Ritterkreuz 1.Klasse (1914) and the Großherzogl. Sächsicher Orden der Wachsamkeit oder vom Weißen Falken, Ritter 2.Abteilung.

They were the third cousins, once removed, of another Württemberg officer, Oberstlt. Karl Graf v. Normann-Ehrenfels (31.3.1866-7.12.1914), who was killed in action while commanding FAR 13.

[The Prussian]

Hello!

Thanks for the correction. I only looked for a Württemberg service. Tha´s the problem with the ranklists... There ain´t no first names

[Claudio]

Thanks for your replies!

Actually I was asking because there's a medal and ribbon bar on sale that came with that name, but there are no documents that go with this set.

Strangely there is a Prussian LS award 25 for officers with that Wurttembergian LS ribbon and not the blue one... very odd, combination, if I must say. Disturbing also, at least for me, that the medals there aren't horizontally on the same position (height). I'd love to see the back, but there're no pictures of it on the seller's website.

C

Edited August 15, 2018 by Claudio
correction

[Dave Danner]

Actually, that medal bar, along with Andy's information, confirms something for me. 

In the Schaumburg-Lippe Kreuz für Treue Dienste roll, there is a Graf von Normann who received the cross as a Hauptmann on the staff of Militär-Eisenbahn-Direktion 8 on 27.1.1918. I was 99% certain this was Arthur Graf v. Normann-Ehrenfels. Andy's info above confirms that at some point, he was attached to the railway troop administration, and the medal bar is additional evidence it is him. 

Now I just need to figure out who the Hauptmann Schmitt is who also received the SLK on the same day with MED 8 (as Vorstand der Transport-Abteilung). 

[Claudio]

Thanks Dave, for your very precious inputs... in that case there's a very strong possibility that the bar really is of Arthur Graf von Normann-Ehrenfels! That's great! ... even that elusive Schaumburg-Lippe cross für Treue Dienste, which is quite a very sparsely awarded cross also because of the small size of the principality:

Fürst Adolph erneuerte am 18. November 1914 das von Fürst Adolph Georg im Jahre 1870 gestiftete Kreuz „zur Anerkennung der Verdienste, welche sich“ seine „Mitkämpfer im Kriege erwerben“. Bestimmt war es vor allem für Offiziere und Mannschaften des vom Fürsten geführten Husaren-Regiments Nr. 14, des Jäger-Bataillons Nr. 7 und des Husaren-Regimentes Nr. 7, außerdem für in anderen Einheiten stehende Landeskinder. An Nichtkämpfer konnte es am „weißen“ Bande verliehen werden, fürstliche Personen scheinen es zudem als Steckkreuz erhalten zu haben. Am Band für Kämpfer erfolgten 10.116, am Band für Nichtkämpfer 281 Verleihungen. An fürstliche Personen wurden 36 Steckkreuze ausgegeben.

Literatur: Volle, Henning. Stiftungen und Erneuerungen von deutschen Orden und Ehrenzeichen im Ersten Weltkrieg. Schriftenreihe der Deutschen Gesellschaft für Ordenskunde e. V. (DGO), Konstanz am Bodensee 2014. Vgl. S. 56.

ciao,

C

[Dave Danner]

Some of Volle's information is incorrect. There is a roll of Fürstlichkeiten with 36 names, but only 18 of these are "mit Band und ohne Band". Among those who only received the cross on the ribbon and not the Steckkreuz was the Kaiser. 

Also, two non-royals in the officer roll had the Steckkreuz: Oberst Walter Rabe v. Pappenheim, Flügeladjutant to the Fürst zu Schaumburg-Lippe, and Maj.d.Res. Ernst Frhr. v. Hammerstein-Loxten, Hofstallmeister to the Fürst v. Schaumburg-Lippe and stellv. Flügeladjutant. 

Regarding the most common units, JB 7 and its Tochterformationen (RJB 7, RJB 20, ResRadfKp 77) and IR 15 and its Tochterformationen (RIR 15, LIR 15, BrigEB 26) lead the list, followed by HR 14 and HR 7. The other unit which recruited in the principality, FAR 58, is also high on the list. Also, the Kaiser's sister, Prinzessin Adolf (Vicky) zu Schaumburg-Lippe, was Chef of IR 53, so that unit received a lot of awards. For some reason, the next most common units have no direct connection to Schaumburg-Lippe: RIR 24 and Saxon LdstIR 19.