First truncheon/tipstave but is it a real George IV?

[RNLSGC]

Greetings,

I hope this is the right place to post as it has been many moons since I have posted here. As the title states this is my first ever tipstave/truncheon and I would like honest opinions or thoughts from the Forum as to if it is a real mccoy? Some background is that it was purchased online (paid very little) but not before asking about some provenance. The seller stated that they had purchased it from an estate sale (New England area) because they thought it was interesting. The length is approximately 13 and 1/2 inches in length and there appears to be age to the painted areas (crackling).

This is an new avenue for me as I was searching for a "new thing" to collect and I do have background in law enforcement (27+years of it). I thank those in advance and look forward to hearing back.

 

Mark

[Brian Wolfe]

Hi Mark,

I would say that you have a 100% original piece. The truncheon is in excellent condition yet the paint is showing its age, which is exactly would one would expect. I have a feeling this was used more like a tipstaff in the sense that it showed the officer's authority rather than something that was used to get a criminals "attention". Possibly a rural constable.

I would put this one in my collection in the blink of an eye, had I the opportunity.  Well done on an excellent William IV specimen. 

Regards

Brian

 

[RNLSGC]

Brian

I thank you very much and for correcting me as I thought it was a George IV. Beginners luck!

 

Mark

[RNLSGC]

Follow Up:

Any thoughts or concerns that this could be a Pakistani copy? Ways to tell?

 

Mark

[Ian Shepherd]

Hi, Mark It looks fine to me.  cheers Ian

[RNLSGC]

Thanks Ian

[Mike McLellan]

Hello Mark. It’s a beautiful piece, but let me add a word of caution. Short of a forensic analysis of the paint, it’s not possible to positively declare a painted truncheon “authentic” or even less than authentic. Most of us have been deceived at one time or another, and it’s often quite embarrassing. 

Whether a particular piece has been altered, re-painted, touched up, or otherwise enhanced is always food for thought. Even if a truncheon has been “doctored”, it still might be legitimate if the changes were made by the issuing agency or the user/owner. 

 In short, it’s anyone’s guess. Again, it’s a beautiful piece and created by a very skillful artisan. 

Mike. 

[RNLSGC]

Mike,

I appreciate your educated insight.

 

Mark

[Brian Wolfe]

Hi Mark,

I must have been experiencing a senior's moment when I wrote "William" as when I review the photos now it looks clearly like a "G" for George.Looks like I was not the only one to have missed that, except for you,. well done. I have written several articles for publications in Australia and New Zealand and some have been on early British police. Suddenly people started to call me the "British Police Guy" which I am not. Perhaps I should forward this post to those I correspond with as proof that I am not an expert on matters police. British or otherwise. ?

I will say this with some degree of confidence regarding the "faking" of such items. Most copies seem to come from India and Pakistan, this is with items other than truncheons but could include them as well. The nature of those who produce copies, replicas or fakes is one of financial gain, call it greed if you will. This is not a racist remark, only a fact of business. They produce a multitude of any one item, be it swords, daggers, medals etc. this is because of profit. There is little to no profit in reproducing a truncheon, they are just not that popular on the collecting market. Since we don't seem to see a lot of these, and if we did they would be in the form of the type of truncheon we normally see and not the shape of the one you have, this is not likely to be a target for the faker. 

Another factor in determining an authentic specimen of any collectable is in the finish. In the case of swords, the fit of the parts and the quality. Since I have retired I have become a professional wood turner, turning (no pun intended) a long time hobby into a paying proposition. I could copy any truncheon on the lathe, which is not great feat. However when it comes to the paint this is in the realm of an art restorer to copy the age and deterioration over time. Once you know your topic it comes down to a gut feeling about collectables. This is covered in the book, Blink by Malcolm Gladwell. 

Perhaps this would be a good topic for another blog in the future here on the GMIC, which no one reads. Makes one wonder why I bother...sucker for punishment I suppose.?

I hope this truncheon is the start of a fine collection.

Regards

Brian

 

[Nightbreak]

Oh, now, Brian.  I read your blogs.  I just don't have much to comment on, because I'm only four years into truncheon collecting and I'm busy soaking up knowledge from you all.

Nice tipstaff, Mark.  If you start collecting, choose your specialty early!

[RNLSGC]

To Brian and Nightbreak

I truly appreciate both of your's knowledge and experience in this matter of collecting. I look forward to learning as I go and hope to call upon your experiences.

Mark

PS

I am waiting on my next arrival with more to come.

 

[Brian Wolfe]

Hi Nightbreak,

So your the fellow who reads my blogs. Good to hear from a fellow over taxed and under-appreciated, Canadian. Happy fiirst day of spring.?

Regards

Brian

[CollectorInTheUSA]

Have no worries Mark, I would add my voice to others and say that, to the extent we can take a look at an object and have an opinion about it without holding it in our hands, this appears to be a nice and legitimate purchase.  

The paint style looks right for the period (although perhaps a bit unusual to have the paint laid as it is right on the "bare" wood, but this is not unheard of).  typically these wood truncheons were painted with not just one, but a couple of different paint layers, and after being dried, then monogrammed with crown and royal cypher in rather gaudy bright colors.  

The aged "craqueleur" you can see in the paint also points to it being right, and something I wouldn't typically expect fakers to try and reproduce.  However, a slight caution in this case, as it looks like the craqueleur may not just show in the painted surface, but also on the bare wood surface.  Is it?  It's hard to tell from the photos.  If the craqueleur is on the bare wood as well, in that case the truncheon may have been lacquered, which I can't say is very typical, and would lead me to question why this was done.

Also, if you roll the truncheon or tipstaff over a flat surface such as a table to see where the high-points of the item touch the surface, you should see wear there, and it seems to me that the red painted decoration has appropriate wear in such high points.  

Finally, you can always take a black light to this object, in a very dark room, to see if the painted surface fluoresces.  If it doesn't, the paint is antique.  If it fluoresces, you have bought a dud.  Everyone should be following these techniques, so that we can banish the fakes forever.

Edited March 26, 2019 by CollectorInTheUSA