Imperial Russia Blood Cup

[Chuck In Oregon]

Essentially, this was a souvenir cup for the public distribution of wine in honor of the coronation of Nicholas II. The prospect of free wine drew a huge crowd and, almost too predictably, there was a panicked rush during which many people -- I have read up to 3,000, maybe "only" 1,400 -- were crushed to death.

I bought this particular example in Tbilisi. It was likely in normal family use, good cups being hard to find, until a tiny pinhole developed in the bottom. The gold leaf underneath the rim is mostly gone but the enamel is still maybe 95-98%.

I would like to see your other examples of this cup.

I found a decent explanation of the history of this cup, sometimes called the ?Cup of Sorrows?, "Blood Cup" or the ?Khodynka Cup?, at

http://www.kensingtonhouseantiques.com/ite...60727store.html

[Chuck In Oregon]

Two more pictures ...

[Chuck In Oregon]

... And two more ...

[Stogieman]

Hi Chuck.... is there a possibility this is an aged repro? Just spotted an almost identical one on eBay this AM?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Russian-Tzar-coronatio...1QQcmdZViewItem

[GeorgeCL]

Hi

Chucks bloodcup look OK to me the one on ebay, I am not too sure of . I have never seen the marking on the bottom like that.

There are repros out on ebay but those dont have the rolled rim.

George

[Chuck In Oregon]

Hi Chuck.... is there a possibility this is an aged repro? Just spotted an almost identical one on eBay this AM?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Russian-Tzar-coronatio...1QQcmdZViewItem

* * * * *

Hi Rick

I guess nothing is impossible regarding fakes these days. I bought this in 2002, as I recall, at the Tbilisi Dry Bridge flea market, where I bought much of my smaller stuff. The seller was one of those old guys sitting on a blanket on the ground selling what looked like family junk. Of course, maybe that's an effective way to sell fakes. I don't know.

Yes, it could be a fake, but I don't think so. I've never seen another one in the wild, just a few on web sites here and there, and mine seemed to compare well to them. I've not seen another one with the stamps on the bottom like the eBay example.

Chuck

[joe campbell]

a very interesting piece!

what has recently piqued my interest

is completing the book "tha guns of august"

by barbara tuckman. it gives one a limited

but interesting look at nicholas.

thanks for the pix!

joe

[Stogieman]

I don't know Chuck, just struck me as odd that the 2 pieces are viewed suddenly when I can't think of the last time I've seen one. Based on what George said, my guess would be that they are BOTH good!??!

[Chuck In Oregon]

I don't know Chuck, just struck me as odd that the 2 pieces are viewed suddenly when I can't think of the last time I've seen one. Based on what George said, my guess would be that they are BOTH good!??!

* * * * *

One thing that occurs to me is that the eBay example, if real, is worth a lot more than the $7 that the seller is asking for an opening bid. Seven bucks?!

Come to think of it, I believe I have seen one or two on eBay in the past. I didn't bother doing a search of closed auctions this time. Wonder what I'd find. I'm curious about the stamp in the bottom of the current one.

Chuck

[GeorgeCL]

* * * * *

One thing that occurs to me is that the eBay example, if real, is worth a lot more than the $7 that the seller is asking for an opening bid. Seven bucks?!

Come to think of it, I believe I have seen one or two on eBay in the past. I didn't bother doing a search of closed auctions this time. Wonder what I'd find. I'm curious about the stamp in the bottom of the current one.

Chuck

Hi Chuck,

The start price is $99.00 shipping is $7.00

These have come up quite regularly lately on ebay.

Ive tried to get one every so often, but always out bid.

they go from between 250.00 and 500.00.

I looked for an example of the copies but must have been over a month ago.

They come Boxed with a flyer about the coronation.

Yours look fine to me, but the ebay one not too sure. I have never seen any with marks on the bottom..

George

[Chuck In Oregon]

Hi George

Shipping is seven bucks. Got it. Thanks for the correction. I guess I just read it upside-down ... or something. Geez, I hate getting old.

I know that I have seen one, maybe two, of these cups on eBay in the past 2-3 years. I haven't been watching for them and I had no idea that they might be a regular item there. This one is just sitting on a shelf above my computer, along with two regimental wedding goblets and a couple of Imperial-era vodka cups, and I thought I'd share it.

Chuck

[Stogieman]

Hi George, thanks for updating us and taking a peek at the eBay piece!

[Pete A]

Actually, I think these cups are the most common encountered Romanov memorabilia around, and seem to be popping up every once in a while. The brand new Monety i Medali catalog lists an apparenty authentic one for an estimate of $ 500-700. However, that example seems to be in top condition. (I hope the auction house hasn't permanently switched into this "thumbnails only" mode, since their online catalogues used to be one of the best picture references of imperial Russian stuff )

Pete

Edited April 19, 2006 by Pete A

[Stogieman]

Hi Pete, thanks for that link. Interesting website with some very nice Tsarist pieces!

[Mathomhaus]

I am fortunate to own two of them. If you ever find one that has no chipping whatsoever and no fading to the gold band, you should either be very suspicious or get you wallet out very quickly. The originals were, I believe, all made outside of Russia - probably in Austria-Hungary. An original manufacturer made reproductions of them in the 1990's, I think. For the record: the repros do not have rolled rims and are thus easy to identify.

At the time of the coronation, enamelled tin was the "latest thing" in Europe and it made the cups highly desirable. The tin cup was one of only several gifts prepared to be given out to the people who had flooded Moscow to see Nicky's coronation: there were also ceramic cups in several colors and an assortment of scarves with patriotic motifs printed on them. Ten years ago, Hillwood museum had a coronation cup out as part of a coronation display and it was either made of gold or at least heavily gold-plated. It was beautiful.

What started the stampede that resulted in the deaths has been frequently reported as a rumor that certain cups that were about to be given out had gold coins hidden in them. Why anyone would have scheduled a large coronation celebration on what was an army obstacle course defies logic - but then, none of the arch-dukes responsible for overseeing the coronation celebrations was ever called to task for the deaths either...

Jim

[Chuck In Oregon]

Hello Jim

Welcome to GMIC and to this forum in particular. I think I'll learn a lot from you. For instance, I had never heard about the supposedly hidden gold coins.

Thanks for your comments in this thread. Would you be kind enough to post images of your cups? Have you seen marks stamped in the bottom as on the eBay example we discussed? Do you know their significance?

Chuck

[joe campbell]

jim-

i certainly agree with chuck's comments!

these details are what add the spice.

hope you can add your example to the fray!

welcome.

joe