Char. Konteradmiral Waldemar Hirth - Unknown medal

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

I just found this nice photo of Hirth.

We can see his medal bar, 4 medals:

- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) 2. Klasse

- Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer

- Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz 

- ???

Does anyone recognize the last medal? Pierce told me it could be the Bayerische Jubiläumsmedaille given it's dimensions. This could easily be confirmed if we knew that Hirth was a Bavarian native. However, he was born in Shanghai, China and I couldn't find any more info regarding his life. He did die in München, so that might be a clue.

If anyone agrees it is the Bayerische Jubiläumsmedaille, is it the one from 1905 or the Königlich Bayerische Prinz-Regent-Luitpold-Medaille in Bronze am Bande der Jubiläums-Medaille from 1911? Hirth entered service in the Navy in 1903, so I think it could be the 1905 Bayerische Jubiläumsmedaille?

 Thanks

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

Anyone? Please help.

[1812 Overture]

Liut Pod’s 1905 medal and his 70th anniversary medal are the same on the front, who can stand it!

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

5 hours ago, 1812 Overture said:

Liut Pod’s 1905 medal and his 70th anniversary medal are the same on the front, who can stand it!

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Who is Liut Pod? If you are referring to the Bayerische Jubiläumsmedaille (1905) and Bayerische Prinz-Regent-Luitpold-Medaille in Bronze am Bande der Jubiläums-Medaille (1911) I know they look the same. Still, the one Hirth has can be determined by looking at his carrer, he joined the Navy in 1903. That would mean he would be awarded the 1905 medal, if he was a Bavarian native. But I don't know if he was.

So you agree it's the Bayerische Jubiläumsmedaille in the last place on his medal bar?

Edited September 7, 2019 by Kriegsmarine Admiral

[Dave Danner]

I am not sure if Navy officers received the 1905 jubilee medal. It was the Jubilee Medal for the Bavarian Army, and the Bavarian regulations published in 1905 do not mention the Navy at all. That said, the 1911 regulations do not mention the Navy either, though they do mention the Schutztruppe. I also have not been able to find any authorizing regulations in the Marine-Verordnungsblatt. 

The criteria for awards of Landesorden to Navy personnel are somewhat muddy. Sometimes it seems you had to be a native of the state, but sometimes awards were made to personnel serving on ships "associated" with the state, like the SMS Bayern, SMS München, SMS Nürnberg, etc. for Bavaria. Since jubilee medals are not usually included in rank lists, they are even harder to track unless the regulations are clear. 

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

7 hours ago, Dave Danner said:

I am not sure if Navy officers received the 1905 jubilee medal. It was the Jubilee Medal for the Bavarian Army, and the Bavarian regulations published in 1905 do not mention the Navy at all. That said, the 1911 regulations do not mention the Navy either, though they do mention the Schutztruppe. I also have not been able to find any authorizing regulations in the Marine-Verordnungsblatt. 

The criteria for awards of Landesorden to Navy personnel are somewhat muddy. Sometimes it seems you had to be a native of the state, but sometimes awards were made to personnel serving on ships "associated" with the state, like the SMS Bayern, SMS München, SMS Nürnberg, etc. for Bavaria. Since jubilee medals are not usually included in rank lists, they are even harder to track unless the regulations are clear. 

Thank you Dave. But what about Hirth's case? What is the last medal on his medal bar then?

And do you know if he was a Bavarian native?

Edited September 8, 2019 by Kriegsmarine Admiral

[1812 Overture]

柳特波德=Liut Pod  I translated this name with Google.

In my opinion, the appearance of Europeans is similar. . I often can't tell Ludwig III and his father, Prince Liute Pod.

I boldly speculated that this person served in the Bavarian Army during the First World War and then participated in the Navy in the Weimar Republic. . (I may be talking nonsense)