Freikorps pin "Z" ?

[benten.]

Could this pin belong to a Freikorps group ?

I don't think it's the "Z"of  Zorro ...  

benten.

[Matthew Macleod]

If I had to pick between Zorro or Zeppelin, I'd pick Zeppelin but truth is I never researched it to be 100% sure.

[benten.]

Zeppelin...…..could be a possibility . 

Thank you for your reply. 

[bolewts58]

Definitely not Freikorps.

Edited September 17, 2019 by bolewts58

[Chris Boonzaier]

I think such pins existed for everything from the Bee Keepers association, to the Local Carnival group to Freikorps.... if an unidentified pin pops up there is maybe a 0.034% chance it has a FK association....

[benten.]

Thank you all for your reply sofar . 

benten.

[bolewts58]

On 18/11/2019 at 02:01, Simius Rex said:

Well, if Mr. Winkler doesn't even know what the Z stands for, there appears little hope of ever finding out.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/132120696160

Well, while Kai Winkler is an experienced knowledgeable dealer, he's hardly an expert on Freikorps.

Actually, I know what this is. It's the collar badge of the Zeitfreiwillige der Reichswehr Brigade 4. The Reichswehr-Brigade 4 Magdeburg of the Vorläufige Reichswehr was formed in June 1919 from the Freikorps unit Freiwilligen Landesschützenkorps.

Here is the collar badge of Freiwilligen Landesschützenkorps/Reichswehr Brigade 4 shown next to the collar badge of Zeitfreiwillige der Reichswehr Brigade 4.

Also, here is letterhead with the logo of Zeitfreiwillige der Reichswehr Brigade 4.

Looking at the stickpin again, there's a slight possibility that this is the civil stickpin worn by former members of Zeitfreiwilliger der Reichswehr Brigade 4. It likely can be ID'd definitively in the Katalog der Abzeichen deutscher Organisationen 1871-1945 (Catalogue of German Membership Stickpins and Badges) by André Hüsken.

Edited November 19, 2019 by bolewts58

[bolewts58]

1 hour ago, Simius Rex said:

Geez O Pete!  Talk about an obscure logo for an obscure unit!  It's just mind blowing that a piece of stationery that survived for a hundred years is the clue to Mr. Winkler's  "Z" badge.  And it's also possible that the lapel pin could be for a veteran of this obscure military organization.  So now there are at least two possible Freikorps connections to the "Z" logo.  This is shaping up way better than Zorro or Zeppelin.  Simi   

Hardly an obscure organization. Freiwillige Landesschützenkorps/Reichswehr Brigade 4  had a strength of 13,423. I've seen a few of these Z badges around, but have never been able to pick one up to add to my collection. Winkler's price, like all his prices is ridiculous.

[bolewts58]

Maybe, I'm splitting hairs here. But, the Zeitfreiwillige der Reichswehr Brigade 4 was part of the Freiwillige Landesschützenkorps , hence the same collar badge except with the Z. I've been collecting Freikorps for 50 years and have been aware of this specific version of the Freiwillige Landesschützenkorps collar badge for a long time. There are other specialized collar badges that have company numbers in them and they are only slightly more expensive than the regular collar. Yes, it's rarer than the standard collar which goes for about 80 EUR. But, still the z badge is worth no more than 150 EUR; nowhere near the 285 that Winkler is asking. He is known for charging absurd prices and I can attest to the fact that all his Freikorps badges are more than double and sometimes nearly triple the market value. Many of Winkler's prices are even double those charged by Weitze who, being advised by well-known Freikorps expert Ingo Haarcke has generally acceptable retail prices for such material, although still considered somewhat expensive by collector standards.

16 hours ago, Simius Rex said:

 A collector who wants this rare badge in his collection badly enough may be willing to pay that kind of price.             

Quite frankly, given there's little actual documentation on this badge (at least that I'm aware of), except what I have provided, I very much doubt that there are very many Freikorps collectors who would recognize this badge, let alone buy it which is why Winkler has had it for years without selling it.

Edited November 20, 2019 by bolewts58

[bolewts58]

Actually, the cat was already out of the bag long ago. There was a discussion about this badge sometime ago on WAF and yet Winkler has not changed his "unknown" description. So, either he doesn't follow the forums, or only follows the German forum, Feldgrau where it hasn't been discussed. In any event, other badges have shown up over the years and eventually I'll find one at a fair price. Even with 30% off, Winkler still wants 200 EUR which is too much for a single collar badge like this. He's had it for sale several times even at a discount and there have been no takers. But, maybe now that we've discussed it someone will buy it. There are a lot of new Freikorps collectors who seem to have more money than sense.

Edited November 22, 2019 by bolewts58