Blackstar order version problem for help

[1812 Overture]

Dear gentlemen, I have come to you for help again. Mainly because I only collected orders for breast stars before 1910. Now I am optimistic about a black star order, but I am not sure about its age. Can anyone tell me about 19XX-19XX? Issued between?

This kind of black star breast star, about the release date?

This black star looks early, with the surrounding radiation angle cut through. .

I hope someone can help me, thanks

[922F]

The first one looks to be Bertrand or associated firms, work.  The reverse pin may have a Bertrand mark and a silver fineness mark.  Some star pins or bodies are marked 'Bronze'; such are of course silvered bronze.  If it is silver and the enamel cross is very well contoured to the star body [so that the enamel appears to 'bend'] maybe 1910-40's.  If cross not well contoured [with flatter or flat enamel], '30's-'60's. 

The second type star usually appears with a silver body and silver or more often bronze gilt badge not well configured to the star body.  Some of these have Da Costa of Lisbon maker plate at the reverse centers.  To my knowledge, definite dates have not been determined for Da Costa pieces though  they have been attributed to the 1940's-'50's.

Discussion over the shade of blue enamel as an indicator of period used to occupy Black Star of Benin enthusiasts with the darker shade being generally accepted as being older. 

A better indication of period is the badge suspension wreath with more detailed and better enameled ones being obviously older.  And even with badge present unless workmanship and exact enamel shades closely match appears no definite way to know if they are an original set.  Here we have no badge image to assist anyway.

[1812 Overture]

8 hours ago, 922F said:

The first one looks to be Bertrand or associated firms, work.  The reverse pin may have a Bertrand mark and a silver fineness mark.  Some star pins or bodies are marked 'Bronze'; such are of course silvered bronze.  If it is silver and the enamel cross is very well contoured to the star body [so that the enamel appears to 'bend'] maybe 1910-40's.  If cross not well contoured [with flatter or flat enamel], '30's-'60's. 

The second type star usually appears with a silver body and silver or more often bronze gilt badge not well configured to the star body.  Some of these have Da Costa of Lisbon maker plate at the reverse centers.  To my knowledge, definite dates have not been determined for Da Costa pieces though  they have been attributed to the 1940's-'50's.

Discussion over the shade of blue enamel as an indicator of period used to occupy Black Star of Benin enthusiasts with the darker shade being generally accepted as being older. 

A better indication of period is the badge suspension wreath with more detailed and better enameled ones being obviously older.  And even with badge present unless workmanship and exact enamel shades closely match appears no definite way to know if they are an original set.  Here we have no badge image to assist anyway.

Thank you Mr. "922F" for your detailed answer, I know that you will definitely be able to help me in this section! Thank you for answering my strange questions again and again and encouraging me. I want to know which order and medal you are studying? French colonial?

[922F]

PM sent. 

Images of three different variety star bodies follow below.  Indications are #1 below was first type [1889] but within a year or two [1891-2?] #2 appeared [Kretly examples known].  Some say that degraded versions [less detail and badges not configured as closely to star body] of both continued through the 1930's but that #2 style ended after 1945-'46.  Other believe that #2 may have persisted through the 1950's.  Other variants known include the so-called Portuguese type that follows a #2 pattern and a Spanish type as 3rd image below.   The Museum of the Legion of Honor in Paris displayed a star with nearly Austrian type faceted rays supposedly with connection to famed French General Dodds some years ago. 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by 922F
spelchek

[oamotme]

Gentlemen,

I have had for many years a 1st type but sadly it is missing its central black star.

Any idea where I can get one to make it whole again?

Thanks,

Owain