My British Collection

[Michael Johnson]

Hi Michael,

Many thanks for the info. Sorry I don't have a scanner yet so can't get that finely detailed a shot... however, I'm looking at it under a loop and here's what it has... as best I can make out.

In the first impression is a capital SG in a rectangular boxed impression.

The next one is a lion, facing left, standing on the hind paws with the front legs raised as if on the attack. It's in a square boxed impression but with two "points" coming up from the bottom.

The next is "I think" (hard to tell as it's rather small) a shield with crossed swords behind it. It's also in a square boxed impression with two "points" coming up from the bottom.

The last one is "I think" a letter D in kind of a Gothic font... looks almost like it could be an O but it's got a swing up from the right to the upper left that comes off the top... Kim checked it too as she's excellent with fonts and she agrees that's it's probably a D. And it's in the same kind of boxed impression with the two "points", etc. as above.

Hope this helps.

Thanks,

Dan

From what you say, I think I'm right, but check the "d" letter against this site Hallmarks "d" is the letter for 1919.

[Guest Rick Research]

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=7...indpost&p=73745

Wow, I am also amazed that it is possible to get ISM award dates from only the names.

Such magic always impresses me, no matter what the subject area.

[Hauptmann]

From what you say, I think I'm right, but check the "d" letter against this site Hallmarks "d" is the letter for 1919.

Hi Michael,

Yup, that's the one... right on the nose! Just wish they were named so we could find out who it was awarded too. Sigh.

But at least we know when.

Thanks!

Dan

[Ed_Haynes]

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=7...indpost&p=73745

Wow, I am also amazed that it is possible to get ISM award dates from only the names.

Such magic always impresses me, no matter what the subject area.

With the (incredibly cranky) London Gazette online, even we puny British ODM "collectors" (phalerists) can work wonders.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveSearch.asp?WebType=0

[Hauptmann]

Award Document:

Hi Darrell,

OOOOOOH! Me want one too!!!!!!!!

Shucks... would even love a good quality copy of the original for the ones I have but do they even keep copies of that kinda stuff in an archive?

As it is, I know "nothing" about researching Brit stuff. Genealogy wise Kim's a direct relative of a Joseph Pike who served in the British Army during the Nappy wars. Got captured, ended up in Germany and when released decided to stay in Germany as he liked it there and to, shall we say, not report back to the powers that be to avoid being a target again!

So he changed the family name to a more Germanic spelling... Peik and it's been that way ever since. I'm sure she still has relatives over yonder across the pond and would love to link up some day. Me has dreams of all the Panzer commanders and Luft pilots and General's and all such she's related to who would just LOVE to give her tons of Knight's Crosses and such!!!!

Yeah, right!

Anyhow, I would "think" there's some kind of record on him there... perhaps still on their wanted list? But also didn't know if he'd... maybe... possibly won any awards while in the King's service. Would certainly be neat, especially if it's possible for family to claim replacement awards like here in the states.

Dan

[Tony Farrell]

The Case should be embossed "IMPERIAL SERVICE MEDAL".

Not necessarily. This was a post-war (WWII) development. The boxes illustrated are pre-war and wartime economy.

The ribbon on the RNR LS&GC is incorrect, and should be plain dark green. Otherwise, a nice pair. The ribbon used appears to be either a provincial police or fire LS award - and is probably quite rare.

Edited April 24, 2006 by Tony Farrell

[Hauptmann]

Not necessarily. This was a post-war (WWII) development. The boxes illustrated are pre-war and wartime economy.

The ribbon on the RNR LS&GC is incorrect, and should be plain dark green. Otherwise, a nice pair. The ribbon used appears to be either a provincial police or fire LS award - and is probably quite rare.

Hi Tony,

Again, had no idea... many thanks for the info. Any notion where I could get the correct ribbon replacement for it?

Thanks,

Dan

[Tony Farrell]

Typically, I have run out of plain green volunteer ribbon. I'll put it on my hit list and send you some when I get it.

[Hauptmann]

Typically, I have run out of plain green volunteer ribbon. I'll put it on my hit list and send you some when I get it.

Hi Tony,

I deeply appreciate that. Just to make sure, you know that one is a mini, right?

Thanks,

Dan

[Tony Farrell]

The BWM/RNR LSM pair appear to be full size. The plain green ribbon was used on several issues and also on that medal until 1941. I don't 'do' miniatures, so I have no ribbon for them.

[Michael Johnson]

Hi Tony,

I deeply appreciate that. Just to make sure, you know that one is a mini, right?

Thanks,

Dan

Very high quality minis, then; I thought they were full-sized as well. And finding a named miniature like the QSA is quite uncommon, which is another reason we thought they were full-sized.

[Ed_Haynes]

Very high quality minis, then; I thought they were full-sized as well. And finding a named miniature like the QSA is quite uncommon, which is another reason we thought they were full-sized.

And the usual absence of naming on miniatures is one reason that I (and most collectors) have little interest in miniatures. Yet, whatever naming may be there is, by definition, unofficial and opens the floodgates to potential problems.

[Hauptmann]

Very high quality minis, then; I thought they were full-sized as well. And finding a named miniature like the QSA is quite uncommon, which is another reason we thought they were full-sized.

Hi Tony,

No... seems there's still confusion... I had thought he was talking about my post #2 which is actually the Territorial Efficiency Medal... then I realized he was talking about my post #5 which I believe are the ones ya'll are speaking of... the For Long Service In The Volunteer Force which is next to the South Africa Medal.

And those are both full sized, named medals.

I put all my mini's in posts #1 through #4... posts #5 on are all full sized medals.

Hope this clears it up. Guess I should have put the minis in a completely separate post by themselves. But as I know so little about what I have I just figured I'd put the entire collection in at once.

Again very sorry for any confusion on any of this.

[Hauptmann]

And the usual absence of naming on miniatures is one reason that I (and most collectors) have little interest in miniatures. Yet, whatever naming may be there is, by definition, unofficial and opens the floodgates to potential problems.

Hi Ed,

Ditto my post #38... many apologies for the confusion. I believe the ones ya'll are referring to are in my post #5... and they are both full sized named medals.

I was confusing it with my post #2 as it also has the all green ribbon. And when I did the reply to the reply concerning the ribbons for some reason I focused in on the "green" reference and didn't even think of the other one having that all green ribbon.

I was in the middle of work, home stuff, club stuff, etc. all at the same time and I fear some of the breakers just shut down in my head at that moment.

Again, many apologies for any and all confusion. They are full sized, named and so the floodgates are still closed.

Many thanks,

Dan

[Hauptmann]

Pretty sure the all green ribbon on the one is wrong, but again... I just don't know. If it is, and if anyone happens to have a ribbon for it they'd be willing to part with please let me know. Thanks!

The green ribboned one is not named. The other is named as follows:

4426 PTE. J. Warren 18th Hussars

Hi all,

To absolutely clarify... I believe these are the medals everyone is referring to, which has the "wrong ribbon" which is what I suspected from the beginning. So... again, if this is correct, and anyone comes up with the correct ribbon they can spare... I'd be deeply appreciative.

These are indeed "full sized, named, correct, okay, etc, etc, etc."

Many apologies to all for any and all confusion... was my own faulty brain going in circles and getting confused that caused the problem. Just wanted to nip it in the bud before it got any more confused.

Many thanks!

Dan

[Michael Johnson]

Pretty sure the all green ribbon on the one is wrong, but again... I just don't know. If it is, and if anyone happens to have a ribbon for it they'd be willing to part with please let me know. Thanks!

No, the plain green is correct for the Volunteer Long Service Medal. The fact that it is un-named is not a cause for concern, as they were issued un-named to British Volunteer units, although some units had them privately named.

The VLSM continued to be issued in India until the introduction of the Efficiency Medal, and so they will be found with EVIIR and GVR obverses. In the U.K. it was superceded when the Volunteers became the Territorial Army in 1908. In the Dominions it was superceded by the Colonial Auxiliary Forces Long Service Medal, also on the green ribbon.

[Hauptmann]

Typically, I have run out of plain green volunteer ribbon. I'll put it on my hit list and send you some when I get it.

Hi Tony, et al,

Okay... total confusion on my part... and I think I did a double job of that. I re-re-re read your post above and now I believe it's this one you're talking about:

It was the talk about a "green" ribbon that got me off track, as two of mine, one of the mini's and one a full size, in posts #2 & 5 were what I started to think about.

It's the one shown here on the right (in the first pic, left in the reverse view) that you're talking about, correct?

If so, yes, they're full sized, named medals... NOT minis.

Whew! Okay... now I think (hopefully!!!!) we're all back on track.

Let me know for sure, but think I finally got it.

Again I've extreeeeeeeemely sorry about all the confusion on my part which caused everyone elses. Been one of those days, weeks, months... well, you get the picture. Just alot going on right now and to top it all off our moron absentee owner didn't get us our paychecks at our one job so not terribly pleased about that as it knocked alot of things off schedule. He's done this before and it's just, IMHOP one of the top worst things an employer can do to his or her employees, nearly bar none! We slave away at our jobs and all we do it for is that all important paycheck... and everyone else is waiting with their hands out and without it all we can do is stand around and look dump. And all the good morale we've tried to build up over the last several months just got a serious kick in the teeth because of him doing this. We have one employee who now is looking for the two week notice forms. Not good!

Sigh. Anyhow, at least here I hope (fingers tightly crossed) that this gets everything back on track and we now know which medal/ribbon is being discussed, that it's full sized and named and everything is okay. WHEW!

Thanks!

Dan

[Tony Farrell]

Blimey... yes Dan I think you've got it! It is somewhat confusing - and it all could've been avoided had more imagination been utilised by the powers that be/were. Your QSA & VLSM are fine. Your RNR LS&GC uses the same ribbon. I'm not even going to mention CAFLSMs and decorations. All in good time.

[Michael Johnson]

[attachmentid=36190]

Here's an Indian Volunteer group - medals bought from three separate dealers! It's almost certain he's missing some Second War medals, but I'm not so sure about the First War.

J.E.R. Jones was with the Great Indian Peninsula Railway Regiment, both 1st and 2nd Battalions. The Jubilee is engraved.

[Hauptmann]

Blimey... yes Dan I think you've got it! It is somewhat confusing - and it all could've been avoided had more imagination been utilised by the powers that be/were. Your QSA & VLSM are fine. Your RNR LS&GC uses the same ribbon. I'm not even going to mention CAFLSMs and decorations. All in good time.

Hi Tony,

Hate to say it but I'm nearly as totally confused as a human being can be. Just because as I said I know just enough to be dangerous with the British end of things. But that's okay... it's all a learning process.

Was more or less following the plea of our courageous leader and Chairman for more folks to get involved here. Figured I had some Brit stuff so I'd let fly.

So guess I'll place myself in the quite capable hands of my fellow members and if any see that I need a specific replacement ribbon and they happen to have one I can beg, borrow or buy I'd be deeply grateful for the help, aid and assistance.

Many thanks!

Dan

[Hauptmann]

[attachmentid=36190]

Here's an Indian Volunteer group - medals bought from three separate dealers! It's almost certain he's missing some Second War medals, but I'm not so sure about the First War.

J.E.R. Jones was with the Great Indian Peninsula Railway Regiment, both 1st and 2nd Battalions. The Jubilee is engraved.

Hi Michael,

That's a beautiful group you have there. I actually had one of those Jubilees... although I think it was the miniature version... was nice though. But I let several of my Brit pieces go years ago and this is what I have left.

Thanks for sharing,

Dan

[Tony Farrell]

The fact that that GIPR trio is (possibly) missing WWII medals makes it all the more interesting. Well done reuniting them!

[Mossy]

Agreed! That is one beaut set, and with pieces still out there, well, The story hasn't finished yet!

Sam.

[Michael Johnson]

Here's my reasoning. This combination is possible without any war service, representing 30 years' service. But there were two major wars in this period.

I've done my best with the MICs, but Jones is too common a name. But he wasn't with the Indian Army Reserve of Officers. He may have stayed at his job on the railway 1914-18 and not qualified for any medals. If he was Indian-domiciled (and many of the railwaymen were Eurasians), the only way he could qualify would be to leave India (unlike the Territorials, who got the BWM for overseas service).

The situation 1939-45 is different. The Auxiliary Forces, India were embodied as the Defence of India Corps, and the railways were in line for at least the 1939-45 Star and War Medal. And I believe the BUrma Star was actually awarded for a short period for service in East Bengal.

[Hauptmann]

Hi all. Been a loooooong time since I've been able to add anything here. I've got another coming but for now, and with many thanks to Perce, an Indian Mutiny medal.

As you can see it appears to have been buffed along the way and the name was partially removed, but hoping to get it X-rayed to try and recover same. Will keep everyone posted.