British Police LSGC issued to other counties?

[bigjarofwasps]

Whilst researching something else I stumbled across this group. I have since learned that the British Police LSGC was also issued to Australian Bobbies. Not heard of this before, has a whole new collecting sphere opened itself up to me?

 

Can anyone answer these questions for me?

 

When did this this practice start and cease?

 

Is there a way to tell them apart from a British issued one? Are they engraved? What type of engraving is used? Do they have rank and name like a British one? Are the ranks different?

 

What about other commonwealth countries, Canada for example did they use this medal as well? 

Edited May 30, 2021 by bigjarofwasps

[Marcon1]

Hiya,

 

According to The Medal Yearbook the medal was also extended in 1956 to police officers serving in Australia, Papua New Guinea and Nauru.

Australia replaced this medal in 1976 with the (Australian) National Medal.

As English Police LSGC Medals are named, it is most likely this was also done with the Australian issues.

 

Kind regards,

 

Marcon1.

[bigjarofwasps]

1 hour ago, Marcon1 said:

Hiya,

 

According to The Medal Yearbook the medal was also extended in 1956 to police officers serving in Australia, Papua New Guinea and Nauru.

Australia replaced this medal in 1976 with the (Australian) National Medal.

As English Police LSGC Medals are named, it is most likely this was also done with the Australian issues.

 

Kind regards,

 

Marcon1.

Thanks Marcon1,

 

Just trying to see if there’s going to be a way to identify the recipient as being an Australian Bobby without any sort of  paperwork or other providence.
 

Would there perhaps be a clue in the rank? 

Another option I thought was given the period in question 1956-1975 would they have been issued in the white cardboard box? Would this box have the particular force documented on the label like U.K. forces did? 
 

 

[Marcon1]

As the Australian police Force is based on the English one I would expect that they have the same ranks.

But you can always try a 'google' to see if there is a difference.

As to how they are issued - if they follow the English way it should be like this.

 

Regards, Marcon1.

[bigjarofwasps]

I’m told that there is a book by a chap called Clive Johnson called Australian's Awarded. In that he states that this medal could be either impressed when gazetted and issued by the UK but with initials and surname.  He goes on the say more commonly when awarded locally (in Australia) it will be burr engraved with initials surname and sometimes rank.

[Marcon1]

[dpk]

Hi All- regarding Australian Police ranks, they were different from State to State- each force having some ranks quite differently named in each State, some ranks the same title and many of these were different from the UK ranks.

Australian rank titles have also changed over the years- example is my State, Western Australia. When I joined in 1973 the ranks, from the bottom up were:

Probationary Constable, Constable, First Class Constable, Senior Constable, Sergeant, First Class Sergeant, Second Class Sergeant, Inspector, Chief Inspector, Superintendent, Chief Superintendent, Assistant Commissioner, Deputy Commissioner, Commissioner.

When I retired in 2015 the ranks were, Probationary Constable, Constable, First Class Constable, Senior Constable, Sergeant, Senior Sergeant, Inspector, Superintendent, Commander, Assistant Commissioner, Deputy Commissioner, Commissioner.

Other States had more mysterious ranks such as 'Leading Senior Constable', 'Incremental Senior Constable' etc etc. Good site for details is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_police_ranks

Re the naming style of the Police LSGC medal to Australian Police, between 1956 and 1976 while the medal was available to Australian Police Forces, I have one example and naming is shown below- it seems to be impressed in the same style as UK issues. It may therefore have been 'ordered' from the UK and named there before presentation in Australia. Picture below:

[bigjarofwasps]

Thanks dpk! 
 

Very interesting! 
 

This has certainly opened a whole new collecting sphere to me.
 

However tracking any down seems to be another story, they certainly don’t appear to be as easily obtainable as a U.K. version would be!!!

 

[dpk]

The Australian issues of the Police LS&GC Medal are few and far between on the market here. Not sure of how many were issued in the 1956 to 1976 period but there must be hundreds- where they are is a mystery. Probably held by family etc due to the relative recency of issue, recognising almost all recipients would now be aged or no longer with us.

It is the same with most Australian Police medals- hardly ever see genuine ones on the market. One problem is that there are many, many very good accurate replica/copy/replacements for these for sale and most are extremely like the originals- sometimes very hard to tell some of them apart. The only rule of thumb I use is close examination of the naming. The older PLSGC medal (the UK one) is impressed in the usual style but almost all medals awarded to Australian police since 1974 (introduction of the purely Australian Honour & Awards System) are pantograph engraved.

Examples- a Victoria Police Long Service & Good Conduct Medal, and a National Medal For Service shown below:

I would not buy an unnamed example of any Australian Police Medal unless I had solid gold provenance, due to the quality of repro/copies out there.

 

[bigjarofwasps]

Thanks again DPK. This information is greatly appreciated!!!

 

I must say, I too am baffled as to were all the U.K. type LSGC’s are! There’s certainly no shortage of British ones for the same period in the U.K.!
If we compare them to say the South Atlantic Medal, relatively few of them were issued and a relatively recent award, yet they come up on the market fairly regularly and command a far higher premium.

 

The examples I’ve seen also come with far more service history than a U.K. one normally would. Is it possible to obtain service history or are the examples I’ve seen just been lucky to have this information with them? 
 

 

 

[dpk]

Hi BJoW,

Each Australian Police Force has a 'Historical Society', almost all sponsored by the Commissioner but run by volunteers. They have access to the Force service records for retired members, and sometimes serving members. They are invariably helpful, and sometimes have detailed records of a recipient. However, not always. In the 'Wilhelm' example above all I could get was his date of birth, date of joining, date of retirement and date of death- nothing else at all on his file about where he was posted or what he did. I vaguely knew his name when I was in the job, I think he was the lockup keeper at Perth for a while but that's not certain.

Inquiries with the force itself are almost always met with refusal on privacy grounds.

[dpk]

Re my earlier post on the 1973 Western Australia Police Force ranks- having re-read my post I see that red wine and age has affected me more than I had realised. On reflection the ranks were Probationary Constable, Constable, First Class Constable, Senior Constable, 3rd Class Sergeant, 2nd Class Sergeant, 1st Class Sergeant, Inspector, Chief Inspector, Superintendent, Chief Superintendent, Assistant Commissioner, Deputy Commissioner and Commissioner.

For what it's worth!

[bigjarofwasps]

Two examples of British LSGC’s awarded to Australian recipients.
Note that the naming does not include their rank. 

[dpk]

See above for example to 'Insp. W.P. Hagan' of Western Australia Police Force- not sure if the Hagan medal was named locally (in Australia) and thus included his rank, or if it came named like that from the UK.

 

[dpk]

On close review of the Hagan medal naming, it seems that the rank and name are in a smaller font very similar or identical to the British issues naming style, but his registered police number seems to be the same font but larger- meaning the number was probably added by the issuing Australian force after receiving the named medal from the UK??

[bigjarofwasps]

WA cop Bill Fanderlinden awarded the National Police Service Medal.

BILL Fanderlinden is living proof that good cops should always stick to their guns.

More than 40 years after refusing to prosecute an indigenous man over a trumped-up charge that ultimately exposed police corruption, the 91-year-old has been recognised for his “unique contribution, significant commitment and ethical and diligent service” and awarded the National Police Service Medal.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/wa-cop-bill-fanderlinden-awarded-the-national-police-service-medal-ng-b88879254z.amp

[dpk]

I knew Bill Fanderlinden- he was a friendly, unpretentious sort of bloke who was the unfortunate prosecutor in a controversial case which landed on his desk. He told the truth about the state of the 'drunk' prisoner and would not prosecute the man he had seen as sober when brought in. He did suffer from senior attempts at revenge and his reputation was 'tainted' by rumour and innuendo for years. As the story shows, he was eventually ackowledged as being honest and truthful, and the medal was a small reward for a lot of heartache.

[bigjarofwasps]

On 04/06/2021 at 13:18, dpk said:

The Australian issues of the Police LS&GC Medal are few and far between on the market here. Not sure of how many were issued in the 1956 to 1976 period but there must be hundreds- where they are is a mystery. Probably held by family etc due to the relative recency of issue, recognising almost all recipients would now be aged or no longer with us.

It is the same with most Australian Police medals- hardly ever see genuine ones on the market. One problem is that there are many, many very good accurate replica/copy/replacements for these for sale and most are extremely like the originals- sometimes very hard to tell some of them apart. The only rule of thumb I use is close examination of the naming. The older PLSGC medal (the UK one) is impressed in the usual style but almost all medals awarded to Australian police since 1974 (introduction of the purely Australian Honour & Awards System) are pantograph engraved.

Examples- a Victoria Police Long Service & Good Conduct Medal, and a National Medal For Service shown below:

I would not buy an unnamed example of any Australian Police Medal unless I had solid gold provenance, due to the quality of repro/copies out there.

 

Interesting that New Zealand, changed their medal the other way around, adopting the Queens effigy in 1976.

2 minutes ago, bigjarofwasps said:

Interesting that New Zealand, changed their medal the other way around, adopting the Queens effigy in 1976.

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by bigjarofwasps

[bigjarofwasps]

SUPT.J.E.VAN LIER. 
Royal Papua New Guinea Constabulary.

[dpk]

Nice group and very unusual to acquire Police LSGC to PNG police. Not often seen out there!

[bigjarofwasps]

In medal collecting, you can never have too much information. So I thought it might be handy to have this for future reference.

 

Below image referenced from Clive Johnson’s book Australian's Awarded.

Edited March 27 by bigjarofwasps

[bigjarofwasps]

There has been much discussion regarding the naming of Australian Police LSGC medals. It is challenging to attach any rules to it. There are also at least two known examples of LSGC’s to Queensland Police that were issued unnamed. Below are some examples.