WW1 Pilot Badges from Collectors Estate

[Mike]

Hello Gents , It's been a while  ....Unfortunately an old friend and fellow collector passed away 4 months ago and his Widow had me pick up his Collection. She asked for help selling it all off since he told her not to trust any of the Dealers. His main focus was WW1 and at one point I remember him having 15 Spiked Helmets ..I only found 1 ...many of his items seemed to be missing and she didn't remember him selling anything off. One of his favorite Blades was a Chained SS he bought from Chip Gambino  ...it was nowhere to be found. Not even one Sword was in the group. He was in bad shape at the end and the Meds took their toll so , I'm wondering if he hid things around the House or, sold things off without telling her. She plans on moving so, she told me she'll search the House to make sure ...if he did hide anything , I hope she finds it.  Anyway  ...my main focus has been WW2 for over 50 years so , these WW1 Badges are not in my "comfort zone" ...And to complicate things, we're in the process of escaping from NY and moving to NH and my whole collection is packed up including all of my Reference Books ..I'm working blind on these and would appreciate any help vetting them. He left her a book listing what he paid for items and what he felt they were worth but , she can't find the book right now.  The main thing right now is knowing if his Pilot Badges are correct ....I dread telling a Widow that her Husband left her hi-end fakes. Let me know what you think and if you want any specific angles or closeups posted. Thanks 

(I'm attaching large files so, I'm only allowed 2 per post)

[jaba1914]

This are sad news.

I hope she will find all the missing pieces and can sell the collection for as much as possible. She would need all the money she can get in this situation.

 

I'm afraid that most of this badges are fakes based on this pictures. There are some points that makes me doubt.

We need pictures of avers and reverse.
I want to prepare you for bad news but hope I'M wrong.

 

KR
Alex

[Mike]

any tips on how to Vet these posters ?

Edited November 21, 2021 by Mike

[Mike]

Thanks Alex ..I expected there'd be issues and , I hesitated even opening up his TR case. She did point to the case and said " I bought him that Blue Max on line and know it's not real ...but we couldn't afford a real one" ..so, she's been very honest from the start . I'll take out the case and post closeups of each side later tonight ...and thanks for the help. You're right ..she's older and counting on some money to help with expenses. 

[VtwinVince]

As Alex stated, we need better pictures, preferably the right way round, to make determinations. I believe a couple of the badges are good.

[Mike]

I took the closeup shots , also zoomed in but I did not adjust the color. In some cases I used a Magnifying Glass to try showing the markings  ...I only saw one marked 800 - Here are both sides of the case 

1st Badge --

2nd

3d Badge

4th

5th Badge 

6th Badge --

 

The Rings and , The Stickpin looks like an LDO # 

any ideas on value would also be appreciated  ...The details are crisp , they are very well made , but I have no idea what lengths the fakers have gone to since I've never dealt with these badges before at all so , I have nothing to compare them to. And as I mentioned , My Collection and Library is packed up so, I have no Books to research them. I appreciate your help guys !!

[VtwinVince]

I like the observer badge. The pilot badge marked 800 bears some resemblance to the square punch maker's material, but the details look soft and the reverse is a bit different. Not sure if this is due to the photos. The engraved pilot badge is fake. The Bavarian pilot badge has an outside chance of being an interwar piece. The Meybauer Flyer's Commemorative is IMHO not genuine.

[jaba1914]

Unfortunately all pilot badges are not good except the bavarian maybe.

The commemorative badge is a known modern fake.

Only the observer badge is a late interwar piece.

 

I have concerns about the KuK pilot badge but this is not my area.

 

KR
Alex

[Claudius]

It is likely that the KuK badge is no good.  The patina is wrong, especially in the center of the eagle where it was reheated to apply the maker mark.

 

I'm sorry for the widow and I hope they find the rest of his collection for her to sell off.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Claudius

[VtwinVince]

I'm not sure on the Austrian one either, but given the huge amount of fakery with these, odds are it is fake as well.

[Lubo]

Unfortunately only the observer is real WWI of post WWI it’s not known for sure! The Prussian Pilot is most likely an improved fake, closer examination would reveal the truth behind it, only these these pics are not good enough to know for sure! All the rest including the mini are bad! The rings could be good, again closer examination needed, but they are only 75-200$ a piece! 
Sad topic!

 

P.S. Vince, good to see you here!

Edited November 27, 2021 by Lubo

[Lubo]

In the upper post I meant “ the Bavarian Pilot is most likely an improved fake”, not “the Prussian Pilot”! I can’t correct it!

[VtwinVince]

Hi Lubo,

 

Gleichfalls! I agree with you on the Bavarian, it would take more detailed photos to make a final declaration.

[Mike]

Gentlemen , Thank you so much for helping with this . When it's over , I get the unpleasant job of calling and letting her know ...and I'm not looking forward to it . Anyway ..from the sound of it , only the Bavarian Pilot has a slim chance of being good (and the rings) but you'd need better pictures. Please let me know what angles or closeups you need and I'll post them 

Thanks --Mike

[VtwinVince]

Mike, unfortunately these badges are probably the worst collecting minefield that exists. I have collected these for forty years and the number of genuine badges out there is pretty small, especially for the Bavarian and Naval aviator variants. Extreme closeups of both obverse and reverse would be great.