U-Boat badges with a Marian Cross mark

[sm_u_117]

Hello all. I've lurked on this forum as a guest for awhile, but had a question that doesn't seem to have been answered in the historical posts. As a brief introduction,  I am a WW1 historian and collector of Imperial German items (mainly Kaiserliche Marine) and don't like to show off my stuff too much, but could share a few items if interested (Tellermützen, EKIs, etc.)

 

(note: I'm not selling or buying any of these, just looking for some info).

 

There seem to be a variant of Imperial U-Boat badges that doesn't match the Walter Schott, Meybauers, Third Reich era hollow stamped ones, or really any of the more common ones. They are marked with a Marian Cross (sometimes more detailed than the others) and appear to definitely be 1930's era makes given the hardware and the fact that about half the ones I've seen are zinc. I've attached a selection of some I've seen online or have handled personally (I believe a user on here posted a zinc one he had a long time ago with most of the gilt worn away).

 

Concerning the image, going clockwise from the top left:

1) a strange badge whose obverse matches the Marian Cross make's style exactly, but seems to have been modified at some point to a screwback. You can see evidence of a hinge for a pin that wasn't totally machined off. I couldn't say if the maker's mark was also ground off to make room for the soldered upper pin to prevent movement.

2) a zinc example on John Telesmanich's site for sale - this zinc version seems to be the most prevalent

3) another piece whose obverse is more deeply struck than the others, but otherwise has the same obverse pattern. Pinback is typical 1930's style.

4) a piece currently on ebay with the same pin hardware as the previous, but with the softer striking as the others.

[BlackcowboyBS]

Well these things are a pure min field. Many copys and fakes around. From what I see on the photo above none of these pieces are awarded pieces in WW1. But this is what you allready said. 

 

it would be interesting to read what others may say, if these are all good and from the 30s. 

[sm_u_117]

2 hours ago, BlackcowboyBS said:

Well these things are a pure min field. Many copys and fakes around. From what I see on the photo above none of these pieces are awarded pieces in WW1. But this is what you allready said. 

 

it would be interesting to read what others may say, if these are all good and from the 30s. 

 

Yes they're definitely strange and have their own unique obverse design, as opposed to trying to copy another badge style, and I've never seen the maker's mark on any other award. I have seen that mark on some French made jewelry, maybe these were made in occupied France?

 

Like I said, just looking for info as these do seem to pop up here and there. That being said, my Schott badge is really the end all be all for me.

 

 

[BlackcowboyBS]

Wow that one is a beauty and to me looks very fine and original! 

[Norm F]

I've only just noticed this thread, but I view all of these Imperial U-Boats with the Marian Cross as likely reproductions.  The wide variety of reverse hardware in both zinc and brass alloy, some of which attempts to mimic Meybauer hardware is suspicious enough, but also there's this example which is a cast reproduction of the S&L design but has the exact same Marian Cross stamp in it.

 

Furthermore, there's no logical reason for any legitimate maker of period awards to stamp a Marian Cross into the badge in the first place.

 

Best regards,

---Norm

[Norm F]

I have yet to see any version of this obverse design (characterized by the plain vertical binding ribbon at the top of the wreath) that is proven to be WW2 or earlier production.  The screwback version sometimes bears a fake Meybauer stamp as well.

[VtwinVince]

Anyone have any ideas about this one? There is a name scratched in to the back which I can't make out.