City of London Police Jubilee 1887 Medal

[Boudica]

Hi,

I have in my collection a 1887 Victoria Jubilee Medal for a City of London policeman. The medal is engraved to: 663 G. Duff.

I'm only now turning my attention to researching this particular medal and I'm having trouble finding any records online. I've got a copy of Simon Eyre's great book on the City of London police Jubilee medals but my guy does not appear anywhere in the lists in that book. An anomaly it seems. I've tried to do the usual research technique of narrowing down searches within census, and haven't hit anything solid with that either, a couple of possibilities, but I fear a bit too old, perhaps. 

Does anyone know if the City of London warrant books will be available on somewhere like Ancestry soon, like the Metropolitan Police have been? Thanks to health problems I'm unable to travel anywhere, so are the London Metropolitan Archives worth contacting with the enquiry, or will they just tell me about types of files in CLA/048? I don't want to pay for a service if it then turns out they don't even have the record for my policeman. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I refuse to give up on Mr. Duff just yet...hoping I eventually find out who he was in some way.

[Dave Wilkinson]

I understand that the relative records for the City of London Police are indeed at the London Archives. I've never used them so I can't comment in respect of their charges. You could possibly take a chance and write to the City of London Police Museum at Wood Street. They may be able to help. But, I fear that they may just point you in the direction of the archives, but depending who gets your enquiry, they may just be able to put their hands easily on the answer to your enquiry. Best of luck.

 

Dave. 

[bigjarofwasps]

This could potentially be him, if that helps?

 

As Dave says the City of London museum is worth contacting. I have always found them most helpful in the past.
 

Point of note is that not all period officer papers exist. But you never know you might get lucky with them.

 

Certainly worth a try!!

 

Keep us posted 👍👍👍. 

[Boudica]

Thank you both for your replies. I will try the museum first. 

Yeah, it could be his records were the ones the station dog ate, or something. 😄 Especially as he isn't in the book I have. 

The Duff you picked on the census is one of the ones I have as a 'possible', as the dates and info fit the potential criteria, other than being described as 'superannuated'(pensioned off) on the occupation side, so may not have been involved in 1887. Anyway, contacting the museum and/or archives will be on my 'to do' list. 

Sorry for the delay in replying. I only now just got notified of the replies. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Boudica
Forgot some info

[Boudica]

I just had a look for the City of London Police Museum for contact details and it appears to be closed...and looks like closed for good, as several of the links from google searches lead to dead ends and error pages. Their facebook page hasn't been updated since 2021. So it looks like the archives will be my only option. 

[Dave Wilkinson]

If you go on to the City of London Police website and click on "About Us" you will see information about the museum. There is a direct telephone number and an email address. I apologise if this is an avenue that you've already explored.

 

Dave.  

[Boudica]

Yeah I've clicked through on that, and it takes you to the Facebook page, which leads nowhere as there's been no activity there since 2021. It's unlikely anyone is answering the messages/emails sent from the page and now doubtful of someone having any of the sort of info I would need, as a closed museum is unlikely to have all the knowledgable staff still there. 

Anyway, not being confident of any answer from that avenue, I've sent an enquiry through the London Archives using their enquiry service on their website. Looks like it can take a while to get an answer, but looks the most likely place to get any info for now. On the website is states if they have the records needed it costs £86 per hour for them to be found/assessed/copied(or whatever they do to extract the info), which compared with some other 'hired help' in the history world is about on par with other archives. All I really need is a confirmed first name and either a date of birth and/or place of birth to take it from there. 

Oh well, a case of being patient and waiting for their answer. I will move on to researching some other medals in the meantime and put PC Duff back into the 'waiting room'. 🙂

[Boudica]

I've had a reply from the London Metropolitan Archives. (Very fast to reply, and thorough, for a free enquiry 👍). My Mr. Duff was not found in the surviving records they hold. They checked the personnel files box and warrant book. They did suggest that he might have been a Special Constable, which weren't entered into the main police warrant book. 

On the one hand I don't know much more about my chap(yet), but it raises an interesting question over the amount of 1887 Jubilee Medals awarded. Simon Eyre's book shows it was a bit more than the 900 as listed in the Medal Yearbook, so it would be interesting how many Specials were awarded medals that are not officially listed, or are on a long gone file. 

So, I will go back to plan A, and look a bit more in depth at my 1881 & 1891 targets and at the very least may have it narrowed down from that.  

In some ways I almost like the slight mystery and anomaly here.  

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

20 minutes ago, Boudica said:

I've had a reply from the London Metropolitan Archives. (Very fast to reply, and thorough, for a free enquiry 👍). My Mr. Duff was not found in the surviving records they hold. They checked the personnel files box and warrant book. They did suggest that he might have been a Special Constable, which weren't entered into the main police warrant book. 

On the one hand I don't know much more about my chap(yet), but it raises an interesting question over the amount of 1887 Jubilee Medals awarded. Simon Eyre's book shows it was a bit more than the 900 as listed in the Medal Yearbook, so it would be interesting how many Specials were awarded medals that are not officially listed, or are on a long gone file. 

So, I will go back to plan A, and look a bit more in depth at my 1881 & 1891 targets and at the very least may have it narrowed down from that.  

In some ways I almost like the slight mystery and anomaly here.  

 

That was a good, albeit negative response to your enquiry. Presumably had they found some sort of a record, then they would have expected you to pay a fee before they released the information. Its indicative of a considerate and ethical organisation that they are not just raking in cash for the sake of it and doing nothing to assist in dealing with initial tentative enquiries. Well done to them!

 

Dave.

[Boudica]

It's pretty standard practice in most archives these days. If they had found his name I fully expected to have to pay for all copies and info. The National Archives work the same way, free enquiry and then a quote if records are found. I've used the National Archives a lot over the years, but it is frustrating at times, that even with a quote it's buying blind. 

There's been a crossover recently with some MoD records. A WRAC lady I'm researching, who served the end of WW2 and out in Malaya after the war,  no longer has her records at the MoD sites as they've been moved to the NA in some new project/idea/collection, but whether that will still cost the £30 fee usually charged by the MoD records, or it will be quoted on the size of file, I'm unsure. I should soon hear about that one next month.

I think most archives are realising that they can collect quite a bit of cash in this way. I also suspect it's why a lot of records sets haven't been digitized...or have been, but are being held back.

[Odin Mk 3]

I know Simon Eyre so I contacted him about this.  He has said he is happy for me to share with you his reply.

 

The problem here is with deciphering the Warrant Book. I read him as George Frederick LUFF Warrant number 5713  Looks like he kept the Collar number 663 through to the end of his service. Started 20th March 1884 and resigned due to ill health 26th January 1888. I'm pretty sure the naming should be Luff rather than Duff but would be good to see the naming on the medal.

 

He has sent me a copy of part of the page but is wary of me posting it here because of copyright issues with the records.  However I can assure you it definitely says Luff and not Duff.  So his entry is in Simon's book (page 144).  

 

I hope that helps you resolve this query Boudica and enables you to further research the man.  

[Boudica]

Thank you so much, Odin! 

And I've found him on page 144 in the book. I wasn't so much as barking up the wrong tree, but not finding any trees to begin with. 😄

I'll see if I can post a photo of the naming tomorrow. However it's probably irrelevant, as on looking at the medal with my light-up magnifying glass, I can now see it's definitely an 'L' for Luff not 'D' for Duff.  20 years of medal research and I didn't see it!?! 🙄 Probably because the place I bought it from usually gets its facts right, and there's a little scratch/metal tarnish mark which looked at in passing with the naked eye, makes it look like a 'D'. And Duff seems more likely as a surname than Luff. 

I can't thank you enough(and Mr. Eyre). I have a place to start from now. 

 

 

[Boudica]

I've taken a couple of pics of the medal naming for PC Duff. The small scratch on the 'L' of Luff is much more prominent to the naked eye than it looks here(plus the natural patina marks), making it look like a 'D' when glanced at. 

Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to respond and help with this medal mystery, so it's no longer a mystery. 👍