Bavarian General Otto v. Lossow

[jonv]

A couple questions regards Generalmajor Otto von Lossow:

 

The two included photos are both in Lossow's German Wiki, but ... is this truly the same guy?

It just does not look like the same person, to me.

 

Also trying to pin down von Lossow's promotion date to Generalmajor. Again, the Wiki shows

19.04.1916 (I have 12.04.1916 in my notes), but ... the Bavarian Rangliste of April 1918

seems to have the date at 17.04.1917.  The note "ohne Patent" here I'm assuming is not the

same as "charakterisiert".  Was his promotion possibly ante-dated at some later point?  I could not

find him listed in the Mil-Wochenblatt 1916-1917 nor the Bav. Verordnungs-blatt 1916-1917.

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello,

 

I believe that the upper photo is of Generalmajor Otto von Lossow.  The lower photo however is of a different Officer: Oberstleutnant Walter von Lossow (1872-1943).  The large medal bar of Walter von Lossow appeared on the market in the recent past:

 

https://mkoegl.de/archiv/3815/9er-ordensschnalle-des-oberstleutnants-walter-von-lossow

 

Best regards,

 

 

Edited January 18 by Schießplatzmeister

[Glenn J]

On 16/01/2024 at 01:19, jonv said:

(I have 12.04.1916 in my notes)

 

Jon,

 

and you would be correct to do so. 🙂 You are just misreading the Rangliste. General von Lossow is listed after all the generals with a Patent, the last of which had seniority from 14 December 1917. General von Lossow had no Patent at this time and is consequently the next in line. He received his patent post-war in the Reichsheer: 16.6.20.

 

Regards

Glenn

[jonv]

Many thanks, both you guys, for the assist!

 

So Glenn, Lossow was promoted to Genmj 12.04.1916, but ... no official Patent until four yrs later on 16.6.1920?

Obviously that is not normal, correct?

 

Jon

[Glenn J]

Hi Jon,

 

it appears so but one assumes that he was not allowed by seniority rules to be substantively promoted over more senior colonels. Interestingly, it is claimed in "Die Generale des Heeres 1921-1945" that he received a Patent as a Generalmajor of 14.12 17. This is not reflected in the 13 April 1918 Rangliste of which you provided an extract nor is it gazetted in 1918 and 1919 editions of the Bavarian Kriegsministerial-Verordnungsblatt. He was already a Generalleutnant in the first DIenstalterliste I have seen postwar (1922) but his Patent date as a Generalmajor is shown in the publication "Die Führer des Reichsheeres 1921 und 1931" (see attached).

 

Regards

Glenn

 

[jonv]

thanks Glenn!

 

My intention is to clarify his rank by War's end; so I will update his profile

to show a 12.4.1916 promotion ... but with Patent not until 16.6.1920.

 

It's a career path that was a bit out of the ordinary, so maybe this is a reflection of that?

 

 

[Deutschritter]

Gentlemen, I am following and making notes. Let me see, if I get it right:

Oberst on 30 November 1914

Generalmajor (ernannt) without Patent on 17 April 1917 (where does the date 12 April 1916 come from? Maybe rank seniority?)

Patent as Generalmajor received on 16 June 1920

Generalleutnant on 1 July 1921

Does anyone have a complete list of WWI decorations? Thanks! 

Edited January 20 by Deutschritter

[Glenn J]

11 hours ago, Deutschritter said:

Generalmajor (ernannt) without Patent on 17 April 1917 (where does the date 12 April 1916 come from?

 

Hi Andreas,

 

Königlich Bayerisches Kriegsministerium - Verordnungsblatt - Beilage zu Nr. 18 dated 15 April 1916

 

Nro 39464

 

am 12. ds

 

zu beförden: zum Generalamjor ohne Patent den Obersten Otto von Lossow der Zentralstelle des Generalstabs.

 

Regards

Glenn

[Deutschritter]

Thank you, Glenn!

 

So the date 17 April 1917 for the six generals above him in the Rangliste of the same year does not apply to him at all? Looking at the Rangliste 1918, this must be the case, now other generals with Patent dates 29 August 1917 and 14 December 1917 are in front of him. 

 

The Prussian Ranglisten seem to be clearer, even if an officer is ernannt and therefore without Patent, at least they give an exact date. 

Edited January 20 by Deutschritter

[Deutschritter]

On 18/01/2024 at 15:54, Schießplatzmeister said:

The lower photo however is of a different Officer: Oberstleutnant Walter von Lossow (1872-1943).

 

 

 

Do you happen to know when Walter was promoted to Oberstleutnant? Thanks! His promotion to Major was 3 November 1914. 

[Glenn J]

On 21/01/2024 at 03:19, Deutschritter said:

Do you happen to know when Walter was promoted to Oberstleutnant?

 

Andreas,

 

Charakter as Oberstleutnant on 27 December 1920.

 

Regards

Glenn

[Deutschritter]

Thank you, Glenn! I knew nothing of the Verordnungs-Blatt until I read your post from Saturday. Now it is already valuable for my research. Here is what I have on Walter ...