Order for the merit to the people/ Orden Zasluga za narod I. class 1st type / prototype.

[eatmeat]

Hi, 

 

On some FB page there was a discussion about an order that is called pronounced Order for the merit to the people/ Orden Zasluga za narod I. class 1st type or better prototype.

Here are is one side of the story:

J. A. Danilov wrote an excellent book in which he deals with different models of the Order and Medal of Merit for the People. The book also describes the unaccepted Order of Merit for the People I. type. When IKOM was closed and relocated wo sets of the Order of Merit for the People 1st type, were found. One set of all three degrees was sold to a collector from Russia, and the second set of the 1st type was bought by a famous collector from Belgrade. (One order from the second set is being sold at the Barac & Pervan auction in Zagreb).

However, a few years ago, copies of the order appeared on the market. The differences between the original and the copy are in the manufacturing technology. The original orders were forged with a die, without the manufacturer's mark. The copies were made by casting in molds without the final engraving and chiseling, which can be seen in the rays between the arms of the star. The copies of the order have a screw: "ZIN * KOVNICA".

 

Now here is my dilemma:

1st IKOM was an old manufacturer form the time of Austria. During the war they were producing all sorts of NDH items under the name BK (Brača Knaus) and/or GK (Griesbach i Knaus). Zagreb was liberated on 8.5.1945 and the order Zasluge za narod was instituted on 9.6.1945, one month after liberation. So by the timeline form liberation till institution its only 1 month time, in witch they must created blacksmit tool and prototype. As the design was changed we know that this design was not excepted. So I imagine that a new design was to be made in a shape that we know today. And i dont think that next day after liberation they started to produce Socialist prototype orders.

2nd. we know that first orders of Zasluge za narod were made in ZNB in Belgrade, that was liberated on October 1944 so they had enough time and "peace" to create all the preparations and prototypes. So why would they decide to do prototype in Zagreb where there was still war time for such a special occasion? My yungest document for Orden zasluge za narod was issued on 26.6.1945 so the timeline is realy short form idea, to production and distribution.

3rd We know that Yugoslavia were makeing orders for Albania, at the end is a picture of Albanian order of bravery. They look very similar by design. Also this "1st type" looks very much like all Albanian orders and nothing like Yugoslavian orders form that time.

 

So my conclusion is that this is a mistake (unfortunaly no documentation exists as it was destroyed), and this is not a Yugoslav 1st type or prototype but an Prototype made for Albania, but put in the Yugoslav box that they had on haned.

 

What is your oppinion???

 

 

 

1st type Orden zasluge za narod ???

 

Albanian Order for bravery

[El Ninja]

As far as the timeline is concerned, that is enough time to produce any order or medal, especially one with such simple design.

Now, for the documents. It does not have to mean that if document was issued on a certain date, that order was also given at the same time. 

During the war, more often than not, person being awarded would receive only a document, and the order or medal would have been issued at a later date.

One case in point:

National hero Stojan Grujičić Jaruga was awarded the Order of the national hero in september 1944, at the same ceremony, Mikan Marjanović was also decorated, but he was handed only a document.

[sinissa]

A very, very interesting observation EATMEAT, which could be most likely a true.

By comparing these two orders (YU prototype and the Albanian Order of Bravery), the following can be concluded:

 

1. The Partizan shown on the YU prototype does not wear a Yugoslav uniform, but one that is more similar to the Albanian one (but not completely Albanian).

1a)  All Yugoslav partisans were always depicted with a "titovka" cap (see Kun's works from the period 1943-45), while the partisan shown here wears something like a beret or an Albanian cap.

1b)  The pictured partisan is obviously wearing a fustanella (men's skirt - something like a kilt), which is traditional Albanian male clothing. 

1c) The featured partisan is not shown in full Albanian uniform. He still lacks the traditional garters between the knees and the feet, as well as the shield on the back (see the displayed Albanian Order of Bravery).

 

2. The YU prototype is made of much higher quality, both in terms of the quality of production and in terms of the details shown. By comparing the two orders, one gets the impression that the Albanian order, in terms of quality, is a "simplified" version of the YU prototype.

 

My conclusion is that:

 

1. This YU prototype was not made for the needs of any Yugoslav order, because no one at that time would have made the mistake of picturing a partisan without a titovka cap and with a fustanella. Especially since all the orders of that time were designed by Kun and Augustincic, to whom such an error could not have happened.

 

2. The “YU prototype” order was made for the purpose of some Albanian order (most likely the order for bravery), but for some reason it was rejected. It is most likely that the pictured Albanian partisan was missing some features (garters between the knees and feet, a mantle on the back and a traditional cap). In another words - this partisan was not Albanian "enough". 

 

3. One gets the impression that the "YU prototype" was made by a very qualified artist, but that he did not have a sufficiently clear image of a traditional Albanian warrior (perhaps even Kun or Augustincic made it), while the Albanian order was most likely made later, using a "YU prototype" as a starting point and bringing some corrections in terms of the uniform and somewhat simplified in terms of relief and composition (probably to speed up a production process).

 

4. It is known that the Albanian Order of Courage was established on July 9, 1945 and that it was initially produced in IKOM Zagreb.

 

[El Ninja]

All this conundrum could have been avoided if somebody cared to just pick up at least some of the archive.

That theory does hold some merit, but why would there be boxes for the given orders with Yugoslavian writing all over it?

There are some better candidates for what could be Albanian rejected prototype decorations.

By that I mean at what is speculated to be prototypes of the Order of national army and/or War banner.

[sinissa]

Hi El Ninja! Nice to meet somebody from my city Banjaluka here on this forum 🙂

Regarding the boxes ... Danilov showed boxes for all three probe orders in his book and based on those photos it can be seen that all three boxes are different, either in color or size.

Based on this, the question could also be asked why someone made boxes for trial orders at all, and if they did, why did they make three completely different boxes for three classes of trial orders?

It could also be concluded from the photos that these boxes are very similar (maybe even identical) to the first boxes issued for accepted orders.

Based on the above, my conclusion is that there is a high chance that EATMEAT's assumption could be correct that “somebody just put unaccepted Albanian trial orders in a box of YU order for the merit”

Regarding the first variants of the Order of the People's Army .... I think Nenad Bjelos has already written about it in the magazine Orden. Let me know if you need this article …

Regards

[El Ninja]

In the beginning different classes of orders had differently colored boxes. 

If i remember correctly, same colors were used for the Order of labor, red for I class, green for the II and blue for the III. Later it was all mixed up and equalized.

That is consistent.

As for the articles, most of it is speculation when it comes to these prototype orders. 

And even someone as knowledgeable as Bjeloš can make mistakes when dealing with the unknown. 

[Drugo]

It's an interesting theory, but unfortunately in the absence of clear documentation it can only remain a theory.

 

As for the soldier on the prototype resembling an Albanian fighter in traditional clothes, yes and no. It could be, but take simply a look at the fighter's figure on the standard Yugoslavian Order for Merit to the People, and albeit he is depicted from the front, you can still detect the same elements, an under-the-belt part of his uniform jacket that resembles a skirt, and a cap that does not look like a titovka at all. So neither of these elements is conclusive.

 

https://i.postimg.cc/L4Lg6ftT/Screenshot-2025-02-21-161506.png

 

Similarities between the Yugoslavian OMP prototype and the Albanian Order of Bravery exist, but one could as well argue that the original OMP prototype for Yugoslavia, once discarded, was reused and updated for the Albanian Order of Courage. It would explain the similarities without implying that the prototype was indeed originally intended for Albania.

 

Fascinating discussion, nonetheless. 

[sinissa]

A very interesting photo of the Order of Merit for the People in the above message – and undoubtedly also important – our very amusing discussion is still ongoing. Thanks for keeping this discussion alive Drugo.

 

At first glance, in above photo there is no titovka cap visible on the warrior’s head. It even seems to me that the two different heads can be seen. One when looking from a distance (head whereas  both sides of the face are visible), and another one  when we zoom in (the head shown in the profile). Maybe it’s an optical illusion, but that’s what I see 😊

 

Anyway, if we don't focus only on this one photo and look at a few more photos of this order on the web, we can see that on most of the orders warrior’s head is shown in the profile and he wears a cap on his head that is most similar to the titovka (see attached).

 

Why is than in above photo titovka not visible? Probably this "mystery" can be explained by keeping in mind that the actual size of the head on the medal is approximately 1 mm (and the cap is even smaller), which means that the slightest inaccuracy during production or damage in that place can lead to confusion.

 

However, when we see the other works of Andrejevic-Kun and Augustincic from the time of World War II (not only orders - see also the design of the first postal stamp, the design of the first paper money or the design of the first spomenica – Russian type), we will see that the partisan at that time was always portrayed with a titovka on his head (and mostly also with a flag in his hand). My impression is that this order is not different on that topic.

 

Curious what you think about it?

 

One thing I completely agree with Drugo – everything we are writing here in the absence of clear documentation remains only a theory 😊

[El Ninja]

Similarities between Albanian and Yugoslavian orders and medals are no wonder. Designers were the same: Augustinčić and Kun.

There are similarities between partisan memorials, orders of the Partisan star and so on. All of this is already discussed and published.

As for the figure of the fighter on the prototype order, to me it looks a lot more like a Spanish republican fighter than Albanian. 

 

[Drugo]

On 22/02/2025 at 18:45, El Ninja said:

Similarities between Albanian and Yugoslavian orders and medals are no wonder. Designers were the same: Augustinčić and Kun.

There are similarities between partisan memorials, orders of the Partisan star and so on. All of this is already discussed and published.

 

 

Yes, indeed, nothing new. I'm just questioning the logical order of things. Given that we know that the same authors designed the orders of the two countries, and that the same factory (IKOM) made them, saying for sure whether a discarded prototype like this was originally intended for one or the other country is tricky. 

[El Ninja]

And again we return to the topic of archives. 

Which were destroyed in the '90s, when IKOM was privatised and split up...

 

Some timeline can be established, though. Albanian decorations were founded by law in July 1945, Yugoslavian OMP in June of the same year. 

Awarding of the OMP, judging by the documents in collections, began in June 1945.

Now, document with that date does not have to mean that the orders themselves were produced. It could have been made and handed much later. Which only adds more confusion.

And there are not much precisely dated photos of orders in wear. More likely, actual awarding began in later half of '45.

 

But, there are the boxes. Same man that I got the information on archives, said that there were two sets of these orders found in IKOM.

One was sold in Russia, other one in Serbia.

Russian set is the one that was published by Danilov. 

Both sets were in identical boxes. 

That should be proof enough.

This rant is already long enough, but there is one more point. Albania and Yugoslavia broke relations in 1948. More likely than not, anything that had connection with Albania was destroyed after that. As was the case with awarded decorations, both of Albania and SSSR. In about 20+ years of collecting, I have seen only one Soviet medal awarded and kept by a Yugoslav. 

[eatmeat]

21 hours ago, El Ninja said:

And again we return to the topic of archives. 

Which were destroyed in the '90s, when IKOM was privatised and split up...

 

Some timeline can be established, though. Albanian decorations were founded by law in July 1945, Yugoslavian OMP in June of the same year. 

Awarding of the OMP, judging by the documents in collections, began in June 1945.

Now, document with that date does not have to mean that the orders themselves were produced. It could have been made and handed much later. Which only adds more confusion.

And there are not much precisely dated photos of orders in wear. More likely, actual awarding began in later half of '45.

 

But, there are the boxes. Same man that I got the information on archives, said that there were two sets of these orders found in IKOM.

One was sold in Russia, other one in Serbia.

Russian set is the one that was published by Danilov. 

Both sets were in identical boxes. 

That should be proof enough.

This rant is already long enough, but there is one more point. Albania and Yugoslavia broke relations in 1948. More likely than not, anything that had connection with Albania was destroyed after that. As was the case with awarded decorations, both of Albania and SSSR. In about 20+ years of collecting, I have seen only one Soviet medal awarded and kept by a Yugoslav. 

 

I am still doing some reserch to comment on few points.

 

but for now only quick replay:

"Now, document with that date does not have to mean that the orders themselves were produced. It could have been made and handed much later."

This could be true, but all this documents saw the serial number of the awarded Order, so why would somenone put on a documente XX was awarded OMP no.234 if they did not have this number in hand? I have never seen that a percosn would get document with different serial numebr on the document and Order. Yes i have seen with no serial number just the name of the order but never a wrong one.

So that is why I am certain if, the document dated 26.6. with serial nuber XX it was realy given to this person on this day this number. 

[BalkanCollector]

4 hours ago, eatmeat said:

This could be true, but all this documents saw the serial number of the awarded Order, so why would somenone put on a documente XX was awarded OMP no.234 if they did not have this number in hand?

 

The serial number of the order was hand written on the award document, probably a few seconds before a recipient was issued with the award itself so the number wasn't pre-determined.

Example from my collection where you can clearly see that the number of the order was written by hand while everything else is not.

 

[El Ninja]

My point. Documents could have been printed after the fact, date is not the date of issue of this exact document, but the date of the issuance of the decree. Besides, in Yugoslavian faleristics number of order had some weight only in the beginning. Later it was abandoned, for various reasons, braging rights being one of them, as was ranking of the orders at a later date. Awarding process merits its own line of research, but that is another subject.

More evidence points toward this being Yugoslavian order than anything else.

The figure itself could be a reason for change, as it was for the Order of labour. As well as there not being enough symbolism in the overall design.

 

[sinissa]

Interesting question in the post above:

Assuming that this is a Yugoslav prototype, what could be the reason that Augustincic/Kun COMPLETELY changed the design of this order?

Even if we imagine that somebody from the Yugoslav authorities told Augustincic/Kun that they "lack enough symbolism" would they COMPLETELY change the design or would they decide to add a few more symbols to the existing design? (speculating question indeed)

The mentioned example of Order of labor proves to us exactly how the "lack of symbolism" (or any other comment on the design) was solved - they just upgrade the existing design. They didn’t rejected design and decide to make something completely different.

By quick visual comparison we can see that both Order of labor’s – the prototype and the final one are quite similar in composition and shape. One was created by upgrading the other one.

Off course, whatever we say now it is a speculation, but maybe someone come up with a more convincing reason for the COMPLETE change of this order.

[El Ninja]

What was the reason to completely change the design of the Order for military merit, which was already awarded in not insignificant quantity? Order of brotherhood and unity, Partisan memorial etc.?

All major changes, in some cases without any similarities between the two.

I can think of quite a number of reasons.

One of them could even be that the Tito did not like it enough. 

It would not be anything out of the ordinary to completely change the design, especially of a prototype.

Who knows how many prototypes were scrapped without any of us ever being aware that they existed?

 

[sinissa]

This prototype is UNIQUE in YU philaristery because it is the only one known who was rejected by the YU authorities and then completely redesigned. That is one of the reasons we consider it suspicious.

All the other orders mentioned above were originally accepted and were officially awarded before they were redesigned. By the way, order of brotherhood and unity was not redesigned so much.

 

The theory that this beautiful prototype was rejected because Tito did not like it, while Enver Hoxha accept it later in a much simplified version, seems to me much more speculative than the theory that this is simply an Albanian order kept in a YU box (to preserve it after the YU-Albanian conflict in 1948).

 

But, as many people - as many specuations 🙂 

[El Ninja]

Wrong again, what about the Order of the peoples army?

No less than three rejected prototypes, without any similarity between the first and the second.

And again, order for military merit, awarded, then completely redesigned and taken back from the decorated persons and exchanged for the new type.

Order of the war banner? Same, no similarities between prototype and the order.

That makes four identical cases already.

Far from being unique.

When I said that it could be rejected because Tito did not like it, I was being satyrical.

Implying that it could be any and all reasons for the change.

 

 

 

[sinissa]

I see no reason for such a reaction, but okay, let's go step by step:

- The prototype of the order of the people's army is not rejected because some of the YU authorities did not like it, but because a public competition for this order was announced and only one proposal could win. For all the others, it was known in advance that they would not be accepted.
All of the above is not the case with the prototype that is the subject of this discussion.
- The prototype of order for military merit is not a prototype but the 1st version of the order. It is officially accepted (as you say, also awarded) and as such cannot be compared with the prototype that is the subject of this discussion.
- Order of the war banner? I have never seen this prototype. I know of two different versions of this order, but not the prototype. If you have, I would very much like to see a photo of it.

 

All in all, with or without the prototype of the order of the war banner, nothing fundamentally changes in the uniqueness of our prototype of the order of the merit to the people, and I am afraid that this discussion also does not contribute much to the topic we starte.

 

And let's finally return to our hypothetical speculative question:

Assuming that this is a Yugoslav prototype, what could be the reason that Augustincic/Kun COMPLETELY changed the design of this order?

Sarcastic answers are also welcome, just indicate them somehow, so that even those of us who are a little slower can recognize them.

[El Ninja]

I will not keep beating a dead horse.

As far as I am concerned, case closed.

Amount of evidence far outweighs any speculation. 

[sinissa]

If it's any consolation, this horse died long before you jumped on it.
The only "evidence" that this is a YU order (box) is killed in Eatmeat's question itself: "Is it possible that this is an Albanian order in a YU box?"

The assumption in that question is already made that the box does not correspond to the order.

The whole discussion is nothing but a speculation as from begin.

Take care

[El Ninja]

I am going against my own word, but yolo.

If the box does not fit the order, than please explain why it is cut to fit this order specifically.

Sorry for the photo quality, but it is best I can make it without a scanner.

And would you please be so kind as to explain the elephant in the room, which everyone seems to have forgotten about, why are there three classes of the said order?

 

[sinissa]

Welcome back El Ninja.

 

Unfortunately, neither I nor anyone else can give answers to the requested questions with 100% certainty, but I can tell you my reasons for doubt.

Before I begin - due to complexity of the topic, in this message I will focus only on your second (elephant) question, which, if I understood correctly, reads as follow:

 

"If we assume that this is the Albanian Order of Bravery, then why were three classes of this order made, when the Order of Bravery per definition has only one class?"

 

Excellent question, but certainly not “an elephant we didn’t saw". In my first post above I wrote that “the prototype was made for the purpose of some Albanian order (most likely the order for bravery)". I leave open the possibility that this prototype was made for some other Albanian order issued in 3 classes, but in my opinion it is still most likely a prototype of the Order of Bravery.

 

Why do I think so?

Because I suspect we are watching here to 3 different VERSIONS of the same order, and not to 3 different classes of a particular order. That’s why it is a prototype of an order issued in one class (not in 3 classes).

 

There are two reasons that led me to this thought:

1. When you compare "II class" and "III class" of this order, you will notice that these two orders do not differ at all. In the textual description of Danilo's book, it is also written that the only difference is that one is completely silver-plated and the other is not.

That's quite a big precedent for an YU order issued in 3 different classes.

It seems to me they are so identical, that if you would today take these orders out of the boxes and mix them up, you would have only a 50% chance of getting the right order back in the right box.  

2. If these were samples of an order issued in 3 classes, then I would expect on the reverse side classification marks of the order "I", "II" and "III", as with most other YU orders of that time, especially bearing in mind how similar these orders are.

 

This is also not a case.

 

That were my doubts about 3 classes issue. In the following days, I will come back to your second question (the boxes), and in the meantime, I would like to ask you to help me with something:

 Can you share a picture of the inside of the empty box of the Order of Merit for the People - Type 1?  Couldn’t manage to find it quickly on internet …

[El Ninja]

Ah, so, no definitive answer, no concrete proof, no way to properly disclaim that this is in fact what it is, Yugoslavian prototype.  Not to mention not having the resources for proper research, or having lack of knowledge of the other prototypes.

And then casting the ball to me, to find the photo of an empty box.  

Quite nice. 

No, prove me and any other author worth its salt wrong. Prove the man who actually took those orders from IKOM wrong.

 Find the data, from the beginning, this is where I will give a hint, which is in Jajce, in november 1943. 

Secondly, who was the first producer of the said order?

Thirdly, could the accepted model be a second prototype variant, presented upon the committee which then chose the better looking one?

 

I wish you good fortune in the arduous labor to come. 

 

 

[sinissa]

It seems you are not interested in the answers to the questions you ask yourself. When they are offered to you, and your previous claims are shown to be possibly incorrect, you again give up on further discussion. Too bad.

It would be nice if you could present at least ONE piece of evidence or at least a theory that this is a YU prototype, other than the one that it was "found in YU boxes", so that we can close this topic and definitelly accept it as “imposible to be Albanian”.