DRA Full Set

[speedytop]

On the three badges shown before you can see the house number 81.

In the directories of Berlin you can find the Hofjuwelier Eugen Marcus:

1913 and 1914 till 1917:Unter den Linden 31

1918 and 1919 till 1921: Unter den Linden 81

The problem is, that you can find later on once more: Unter den Linden 31, definetily since 1922.

Therefore i can't say, house number 31 is pre WWI.

But I can say, house number 81 ist post WWI.

By the way, in this directories stands Hofjuwelier, till 1922, than only Juwelier.

These are 8 Eugen Marcus badges:

- the first three, in Bronce Silver and Gold, with house number 31, 2 different types

- the last five, 3 in Bronce an 2 in Gold, with house number 81, 2 different types

Summarised: 4 different types.

Regards

Uwe

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by speedytop
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[Guest Rick Research]

Street number is 31, and Hofjuwelier, so from the directories you've cited that makes pre-1918.

In honor of this new interest (nobody ever CARED before except for me) NEW Scans!!!!

So THREE TYPES

1) "Hofjuwelier 31" = 1913-17 (that is, 1913 and 1914: award numbers known)

2) "Hofjuwelier 81" = 1918-1921 (that is, 1919, 1920, 1921: award numbers known)

3) "81" street address, "Court Jeweler" dropped = 1922-1933 (award numbers known in total but the most COMMON type seems to have been made by Wernstein in Jena, cutting Marcus out of an exclusive contract at some point???...)

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by speedytop
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[Naxos]

Thank you Uwe

very interesting and of course plausible deduction.

Regards, Hardy

Edited January 19, 2007 by Naxos

[Guest Rick Research]

I wonder how much the German Olympic Committee would offer me for the ONLY one in the entire world?

And the next obvious question is, how many "31 Hofjuwelier" BRONZES are out there of the

1913= 204

1914 = 941

??????????????

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by speedytop
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[Guest Rick Research]

And, when the street number was changed to "81 Hofjuwelier," did they just chisel out a bit on the "31" die?

Here's the back of my gold "31 Hofjuwelier" with the "0900" down to the right of the catch:

Could we see some closeups of the mark from what Uwe has now shown us is that transitional 1919-1920-1921 type "81 Hofjuwelier?"

Man oh man, are prices on the PRE "81 plain" marks going to skyrocket-- better get out there and gobble 'em up before they vanish!!!!!!

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by speedytop
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[Guest Darrell]

Hmmm ... time for new scanner I'm afraid. Pretty crappy, but as per Rick's request.

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by speedytop
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[Guest Rick Research]

"Hofjuwelier 31."

So, I'm thinking adjoining tropical beachfront property, right?

How come all the insanely rare stuff I have isn't "worth" anything to all those Investor Speculators?

[Guest Darrell]

"Hofjuwelier 31."

So, I'm thinking adjoining tropical beachfront property, right?

Sounds Good

[Guest Rick Research]

How about some sports clothing versions? Here are old scans of a Wernstein Bronze with the "BeVo" type sewn on gym shorts:

I know, I know. I've got to make new scans.

Oops, lost the metal Wernstein scans. Oh well, who cares about THOSE anyway?

 

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by speedytop
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[Naxos]

Hofjuwelier 81

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by speedytop

[Guest Rick Research]

Ahhhhhh. Same funny "8" with fat "S" curves as the postal code above it.

Bronze/Silver/Gold =

1919: 988/0/49

1920: 1,055/99/16

1921: 3,922/420/101

Not bad, not bad at all.

[Naxos]

Thanks Rick for the info. Here is the vaulted mini pin for the above DRA

Regards, Hardy

[speedytop]

Hi Hardy,

thank you for posting the pictures.

What is on the reverse of your mini? A makers name?

Hi Rick, hi Darrell,

amazing, but first let us talk about DRL without swastika, the sports badge post WWII !?

Please, look at my last post: 31 could be 1913/1914, but it could be 1921/1922 too.

I don't know the exact changing dates from street number 31 to 81 and back to 31.

And I don't know the exact changing date from Hofjuwelier to Juwelier.

And nobody can say, when Mack & Purbs, Wernstein and Lauer started with their badges.

The mini started 1921, in my collection is one mini made by Marcus.

The clothing version started later, after 1924 (but I don't know, when). In documents from 1929 you can find it (Tuchabzeichen), but I have no documents from 1925 to 1928.

 

Enclosed is a very special cloth version, 84mm x 110mm.

My both badges with 31 in Bronce and Gold are made with the same tools/dies, but the badge in Silver is different in design, and especially the obverse it is more corresponding to 4 of my badges with 81.

It could be, that the badge in Silver is basically a post WWI production, that there was no production of this badge pre WWI, because the first year, that it could be awarded, is 1916 (based on the start in 1913).

But it could be too, that Marcus started with all the 3 badges in Bronce, Silver and Gold in 1913.

 

It is probably understanding, that there were some more badges in Gold than the awarded 108.

 

In the next months/years I will try to collect more informations about DRA badges on different places in germany.

Regards

Uwe

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by speedytop
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[Naxos]

Hello Uwe,

I really appreciate you sharing your vast knowledge of the Sportabzeichen. I learned more about the DRA in this thread then over the last twenty years collecting.

I would like to see some better pictures of your different types of the DRA

Thanks again, Hardy

Here is another pick of the mini. There is no maker mark on the back.

[Guest Rick Research]

That embroidered DRA looks like an arm badge from the Provisional Reichsheer more than the real badge, Uwe! A VERY weird type!

That's Ok, even IF 1921 (101) and 1922 (204) it looks like I still have the ONLY 900 silver gilt one, so I'll wait for the German Olympic Committee to buy me a private tropical island for it.

Do your "Hofjuwelier 31" reverse letters look like the die used on mine, or on Darrell's? There are distinct differences in how the letters on each line align with each other, suggesting two dies.

Maybe the one from 1913 broke.

I agree, this is the most detailed discussion of these badges I have ever seen, and the key is the different street addresses at different times, which lets us date at least the "Very Early" badges. As award numbers increased, Marcus must not have been able to supply the increased demand, so Wernstein got in.

I've never seen that THIRD maker you mention, either-- only Marcus and Wernstein on DRAs.

So much NEW information!

Perhaps Berlin telephone books from the 1920s might EXACTLY narrow down when the Marcus name changed. I always assumed they either went out of business in the Great Depression, or were "Aryanized" in 1933-35. No DRL badges from them...

or are there?????????????????

PS (slow old brain )-- I just realized that I have and will make a scan and put it in here later biographical trivia about Herr Eugen Marcus--

he was born in Berlin 20 June 1861. Received Lippe-Detmold Leopold Order 3rd Class, 50th on the roll, 16 October 1917 as "Hofjuwelier Berlin."

[Naxos]

for comparison: 1. Darrell's Marcus 31, 2. Rick's Marcus 31, and 3. my Marcus 81

1.)

2.)

3.)

1 and 2 look like they are from different dies

Edited January 20, 2007 by Naxos

[Guest Darrell]

Slightly better pci of maker mark:

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by speedytop
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[Naxos]

Darrell, it looks more like 81 now, right?

Edited January 20, 2007 by Naxos

[Guest Darrell]

Darrell, it looks more like 81 now, right?

Really? Not to me.

[Naxos]

1.) Darrell, 2.) Rick, 3.) mine.

Regards, Hardy

Edited January 20, 2007 by Naxos

[Guest Rick Research]

I scanned my full front and back at x275 percent if you want to get exact size matchs, but now I don't remember how big I enlarged the reverse closeups of the marks to.

[Guest Darrell]

I'm tempted to go buy a new scanner , but what resolution can one get on a scanner these days ... any opinions on a good price but quality buy?

Edited January 20, 2007 by Darrell

[speedytop]

Hi Hardy,

your DRA mini looks like a post WWII (!) production.

Never before I saw such an example!

The bottom loop is very small.

On the picture you can see two of my minis, both with maker mark Lauer.

It could be, that my second piece is a post WWII production too?

The first:

GES. GESCH?TZT

Nr. 34815

L. CHR. LAUER

N?RNBERG

BERLIN SW.68

The second:

LAUER N?RNBERG

Regards

Uwe

 

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by speedytop
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[speedytop]

Hi,

last night I bought another badge in Silver with 31 (20.50 Euro)

And few days ago nobody want to buy a badge in Gold with 31, start price 40 Euros

Rick, that is DRA in Gold, made by Mack & Purbs:

Please wait some days, and I will show you more pictures 81 and 31.

Regards

Uwe

 

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by speedytop
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[Guest Rick Research]

Darrell-- you simply need to get an EPSON scanner. NO OTHER kind allows YOU to set size and dpi to exactly what YOU want and not its preset so you have to resize baloney. 31% at 1200 dpi? No problem. 387% at 150dpi, sure. Zoom in before scanning and get the image in one take, none of that 53 steps "editing" labor. I just got a "Perfection 4490" in October, but they're probably up to 5774 by now. Hard to FIND a scanner anymore that is JUST a scanner and not a combination global positioning satellite, fax machine, clothes press, and home entertainment center.

More and more interesting!

These badges have never gotten much attention from English speaking collectors. Maybe because the "reference books" ALWAYS got the changing requirements wrong (the regulations are completely posted in every full award booiklet! ), It used to amuse me when the first Official Price Guide first came out almost 20 years ago to see dealers instantly raise their prices on items that could not be given away here to match the German supposed retail market.

I'm surprised you could still find bargains there which do NOT simply repeat the price guide "values."

Lucky for us only 20 people on this whole planet apparently bother to study things and contribute to our own shared knowledge on the internet!

Alas, out of all the sports badges that once were mine, all I have left are the DRA silver-gilt, one in bronze, a yucky "eloxiert" DRL in gold with swastika, and two first issue SA Sports badges. Now those ARE weird, by position and not age or repetition! At least I kept the regulations book for that type, too.