France Questions about M15 French helmets.

[Hun Helmet]

Being a collector of German lids I know you have to watch out for fakes but have no idea about French WWI helmets.

Are any faked? What are the pitfalls of collecting French lids if any?

Also can anyone direct me to any web sites that deal with French WWI helmets other then no man's land militara? Already know about that one.

Mike

[Michael Johnson]

Being a collector of German lids I know you have to watch out for fakes but have no idea about French WWI helmets.

Are any faked? What are the pitfalls of collecting French lids if any?

Also can anyone direct me to any web sites that deal with French WWI helmets other then no man's land militara? Already know about that one.

Mike

Don't know about fakes, but there are replacement liner kits available on eBay.fr, as well as the helmet emblems, supposedly struck from original dies.

Also Mdle26 (WWII) Adriens are sometimes tagged as being WWI. The colour is often the giveaway, although Colonial troops did use Khaki helmets 1914-18. Several other countries also used the Adrien.

[Daniel Murphy]

Mike,

1. If you find a khaki painted helmet that is not colonial, it was most likely painted for use in the post war period. All green paint is post war.

2. I have ever seen only one camo painted French helmet in 35 years of collecting. That one was in a book.

3. Cloth helmet covers were used mainly 1915-1916. It was later found that contaminated dirt in the cloth caused something called gas gangrene when penetrated into the wound. In head wounds this was fatal and the covers were discontinued. Therefore original covers are very rare and when found are either mint or very well worn.

4. Helmets missing the front insignia often have a repro-fake insignia added. The color should match not only the color ,but the wear, on the helmet. The original front badge leaves an outline on the helmet, if it is replaced with a different type of insignia , you can tell.

5. Original liners should be multi piece with a one piece leather sweatband. The tongues will be sewn to this and have grommets for the string. The liner is usually a very thin poor quality leather, so a liner made of high quality cowhide should raise questions. The chinstrap is also usually paper thin with a stamped SQUARE, not rectangular, buckle.

6. The wool backer for the liner can be khaki, dark blue, red, or horizon blue. They were made from old worn and damaged uniforms, that is the reason for the colors. Dark blue and red indicate, most likely, an earlier helmet and are the most desirable. Horizon blue is also good. Khaki, could be post war or made from an old colonial uniform, the problem is how to tell which one.

7. Often the rivets on the comb are of aluminum and usually indicate an early helmet. Later helmets are all steel rivets.

8. The French 1915 Adrian helmet was a pitiful piece of "protective" gear. It was made of mild steel and it's sole value as a helmet was supposedly the fact that it was made from a bunch of pieces rivited together. You should pity the poilus that had to wear it, yet give them credit for the fact that they DID actually wear it.

Dan Murphy

[Hun Helmet]

Thanks Dan that is some great info. I am only interested in a early or later blue colored infantry helmet.

Are French helmets repainted by con artists to any degree?

Mike

[Daniel Murphy]

Are French helmets repainted by con artists to any degree?

To my knowledge, no. Not yet. Quite a few are repainted for the "wars" by French reenactors. Up until recently, the price of a nice complete adrian was fairly low. Since the good ones are creeping up to $200-$300, there is always the chance. If you have any prospective helmet in your hands, put it right up to your nose and smell it. 90 year old paint does not smell, so if you can smell paint, reconsider your purchase if you are looking for a collector grade piece. The paint can be smelled up to a year or two after being repainted. After that, look for other things like lack of wear on the high points etc. There are helmets with mint paint but they are few and far between.

Dan Murphy

[Michael Johnson]

Here are some shots of my Adrien. It belonged to my Great Uncle Capitaine Marcel Verzieux 3e Regt de G?nie. The liner appears to be horizon blue.

[attachmentid=47426]

[attachmentid=47425]

[Michael Johnson]

[attachmentid=47428]

This shows the metal spacer.

Also, the paint under the liner is a lighter horizon blue. The exterior has received a couple of coats of paint and is darker. One source suggests that this darkening was caused when the lighter blue was lacquered.

Edited July 21, 2006 by Michael Johnson

[Michael Johnson]

[attachmentid=47456]

A side view.

[Michael Johnson]

Capitaine Verzieux on the left, his nephew Adjt. Antonin Gautier of SPA80 on the right.

[attachmentid=47457]

[Hun Helmet]

Outstanding helmet made even more outstanding that a family member wore it during the war.

I had an M26 with the same frontal badge on it for years but sold it when I learned it was post WWI.

Mike

[Chris Boonzaier]

Outstanding helmet made even more outstanding that a family member wore it during the war.

Agreed... so many medals and papers survive in the family, helmets are seldom kept !