WW1 Victory Medals General Discussion

[RobW]

Martin Burr, on 19 Dec 2012 - 08:53, said:

Is there a rough guide as to the ballpark values of each version?

Martin

Hello Martin,

The question on medal values is probably one of the most discussed topics in any collecting field.

There is two areas here that need to be understood; market values and collector values. I think a close look at sales on the various online auction houses, ebay sites, and other online medal dealers should give you a general guide as to the prices you could expect for each of the varieties. There is then what a specific collector will pay for the same item; and this may not always be consistent with the market value.

I think the numbers minted estimate that is listed in the now increasingly dated Laslo reference, are a good guide, to the relative scarcity of each variety. That should at least give you an indication as to how frequently different pieces turn up in the market. That, in turn, should provide a guide as to what sort of price range you are likely to be looking at, to obtain the piece.

I would recommend you keep a price list and update it over time. This will give you a bench-mark to the prices listed. This won't take into account one-off's or other single anomalies for pieces that are just so hard to achieve (I use the hallmarked Brazil official type 1 as an example) but it would be a start.

Regards,
Rob

To all,

I have re-posted this post from the fakes sub-forum as it has relevance to the general topic of vic medal values.

Any other views would be appreciated?

Regards,
Rob

Edited December 18, 2012 by RobW

[Martin Burr]

Many thanks again for your advice RobW

With regard to the scarcity of the various types, am i right in that the Belgian Vic was said to have been awarded in the range of 300,000 - 350,000? I ask this, as going by ebay values, they dont seem to command a much greater price than the Italian Vic, that was was said to be awarded in the region of 2,000,000. I appreciate that different variants may affect this, but scarcity doesnt always make something more expensive. Could it be that due to the naming of the British Vic to recipients, that this most common version maintains a value higher than it's scarcity level may warrant?

[RobW]

Many thanks again for your advice RobW

With regard to the scarcity of the various types, am i right in that the Belgian Vic was said to have been awarded in the range of 300,000 - 350,000? I ask this, as going by ebay values, they dont seem to command a much greater price than the Italian Vic, that was was said to be awarded in the region of 2,000,000. I appreciate that different variants may affect this, but scarcity doesnt always make something more expensive. Could it be that due to the naming of the British Vic to recipients, that this most common version maintains a value higher than it's scarcity level may warrant?

Hello Martin,

I would definitely agree that the named British vics, to all the commonwealth countries, would maintain a higher value due to the attribution as well as the ability to conduct research into the recipient. Unfortunately with the other country issues, that are not named, such research is difficult.

In regards the Belgian and Italian vics both are seemingly plentiful in the market hence the similar values, despite there being more sub-varieties of the Italian model.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

To one and all,

Noting some other references to Alex Laslo's book on the Interallied victory medal series, there is such a copy of the 2nd Edition listed on ebay at the present. Such volumes do not appear all that often.

It is auction number: 140898513320. At the time of posting there is but 23 hours remaining of this auction, and it has a reserve price.

Regards,
Rob

Edited December 27, 2012 by RobW

[Martin Burr]

Thanks RobW

The $250 BIN price was a little too high for me, as much as i would have liked the book. A copy shall come round again sometime

Happy New Year to one and all

Martin

[IrishGunner]

This thread has been renamed "General Discussion" and I've left posts that cover multiple countries and/or relate to the founding of the WWI Victory Medals forum itself. It's now only 5 pages! I'm going to unlock the thread and we can now use this for discussion on general themes or issues that cut across multiple countries. I suspect this will remain a low-count thread simply because the trend seems to specialize on country-specific information.

[lambert]

I think I'll have to read it all over again ...

Lambert

[johnnymac]

Hi can anyone ID this marking: it is on a early French made (U.S.) Victory medal, maybe from the 1930's.

Thanks Jim

[paul wood]

Looks like the standard French marking for Bronze, except the ZE has gone AWOL

Paul

[Bilco]

What about the square mark to the left of BRONZE? - it doesn't match any of the Victory makers' marks I've come across before.

Bill

[paul wood]

I supect that is a foundry or factory mark but not clear enough on image for any positive ID.

Paul

[johnnymac]

Thanks, the marking to left (square) is what I am looking to ID

[paul wood]

I have tried looking at it closely but it is really too indistinct. Its a bit like the phsychiatrists ink blob you can make of it whatever you like. Its a shame you can't do good old line drawings on line. Does it have any resemblance to anything animate or inanimate?

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Paul

[Bilco]

Paul - I've also been trying to discern the markings inside the square stamp, but can't get much out of the enlargements. What we need is to find out which firm - or firms - used a stamp like this - there are plenty of lozenges and triangles, but I havent come across a square yet.

Bill

Edited May 23, 2013 by Bilco

[Bilco]

Well, on this site I found this thread http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/44224-french-makers-marks-hallmarks-guarantee-stamps/page-4

and in post #63 there are two rectangular stamps, with just one of them square - Adrien Chobillon. However, I can't make out the crossed batons and AC on the medal Jim posted - or the eagle's head in the other one.

Then also see http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/41954-french-medal-makers-hallmark-identification/ post #2 - while post #6 gives some identification - Delande?

Bill

[paul wood]

Bill, I think your second option is most likely, well remembered and spotted.

Paul

[Bilco]

Hi PAul,

There isn't much around about the Delande mark - in fact these are the only photos I've been able to find so far (thanks Rob).

The mark is: M - a bee - D (before 1942) or P - a bee - D (after 1942) according to the French hallmarks thread here on GMIC.

Bill.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Bilco

[Bilco]

I've had a play with the images ...

On the left is the mark from the last of Rob's images, rotated through 180 degrees, and on the right the mark from Jim's image, rotated right through 90 degrees.

I can convince myself that they both have a bee in the lower part of the square, and I think there is a letter M in the top left corner and D in the top right corner.

Or am I headed for the Home for the Terminally Bewildered?

Bill

edited to improve the image

Edited May 23, 2013 by Bilco

[johnnymac]

Bill I believe you may be right also the bronze style lettering looks like a match. To me it seems the square is taller going up and down. whereas the left to right is shorter. And it seems to be the same situation in both photos or I just seeing things?

Here is another photo of my marking, Jim, what do you think?

[Bilco]

Hi Jim,

The last image definitely looks like a bee - seems to be a good case for Delande. I just wish I could find other images!

Bill

[Jean-Michel]

good evening Jim,

To begin with what is the type of suspension?

Then the punch is rectangular so it's bronze.

Is there a mark on the ring?

Normally suspension is to ball, there's a bee in the hallmark, and if the hallmark was not used should find the initials "MD" (Marius Delande) on each side of the bee.

Conclusion I think you are in possession of a Victory Medal type "DELANDE"

Regards

Jean-Michel

[johnnymac]

Hi, Jean-Michel,

It is a ball suspension. It is a Repro type-1a, without Made in France, stamp. And no raised bronze it is sunken, and stamped BRONZ. (Laslo may have been mistaken as to it being raised.)

I believe this is an earlier medal than the one Laslo listed but it is the same medal.

This is from Laslo book.

Jim

Type la

Numerous obverse and reverse die differences compared to the Repro Type 1. Edge markings as appearing from the three o'clock to the six o'clock position are; "MADE IN FRANCE" (stamped), a sunken, square hallmark with unintelligible interior marks, and "BRONZE" in raised letters and surrounded by a sunken rectangular field. Also without the name of the designer on the obverse.

35 mm

Ball

[Jean-Michel]

Hi Jim,

I fully agree with your analysis.

soon see

Jean-Michel

[RobW]

To one and all,

For those vic collectors that have yet to obtain a copy of the Laslo references there are two current ebay auctions open; one for each edition of the books.

Auction numbers are:

* 151056874567 - Numbered and signed 1986 first edition (752/765).

* 151056874741 - 1992 second edition.

While both have a modest starting price these volumes are not seen that often. Despite their age they are the only specific reference book available, at this time.

Regards,
Rob

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

Last week I was in Cambridge and took the opportunity to visit the Fitzwilliam Museum to view the Lester Watson Collection WW1 Victory medals, which I posted about in post #93 of this thread. I rang a week beforehand to make an appointment, and the Coins and Medal Department were very accommodating. I was able to handle the medals and examine them under a magnifying glass.

These are the conclusions I came to:

Great Britain - Official Type 2 - it is un-named but may have had naming erased - the photo on the Fitzwilliam web site seems to show the planchet oddly out of round in the lower part. This isn't apparent 'in hand' but the lower edge of the medal seems slightly rounded - the rim isn't as sharp as at the top.

Belgium - Official Type 1

US with ATLANTIC FLEET clasp - Official Type 2, with Fulford clasp.

US without clasp - Official Type 2 - named 'L.WATSON CAPT. A.S.A.' On the web site http://skyways.lib.ks.us/genweb/archives/statewide/military/wwI/casualty/14.html
there is a list of abbreviations from WW1, which has A.S.A. as Air Service, Military Aeronautics, and there is some detail here http://en.allexperts.com/q/Military-History-669/2008/3/S-Det.htm

Czechoslovakia - French-made Repro Type 1 - no edge markings.

France - Official Type.

Japan - French-made Repro - no edge markings.

Greece - Unofficial Type 2.

Portugal - Official Type 2.

Romania - Unofficial Type 1.

South Africa - Official Type 1 - named to Dvr. A. KARSTEN C.A.H.T.C. - Cape Auxiliary Horse Transport Corps.

Cuba - This medal has the BRONZE stamp on the edge, plus a very clear triangle with AC inside. The reverse matches the one posted on the Cuba thread post # 6, rather than the one in Laslo. I have called it Official Type.

Italy - Official Type 2.

According to the information on the Fitzwilliam web site the dates of purchase of these medals were taken from Lester Watson's own catalogue cards, with most being bought by 1928. As you see, they are a mixture of Official, Unofficial and Repro.

Bill

Edited June 19, 2013 by Bilco