grimble-nibitz Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 I am not sure but think this is a White Russian award, their version of the St. George Medal...but I bet one of you knows for sure. I know nothing about these and it was included in a large medal collection. Does anyone know for sure what this is, if its real and if the number on back would yield a name, if its genuine...?? Thanks for all the help, these little things are a nice reminder that we don't know everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 This piece is trying to impersonate famous and super rare ataman Semyonov cross. For more info see http://kolchakiya.narod.ru/faleristika/georg_decoration_Semenov.htm About Semyonov see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigory_Semyonov This one is replica of course... Here you will find another one (with different number) here http://cossac-awards.narod.ru/Znaki_bez_woisk_starye_files/Georg_OMO/Georgy_OM0_3.html Cheers, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimble-nibitz Posted September 3, 2013 Author Share Posted September 3, 2013 you may be right, of course, but the details and design of this medal, especially the George and dragon, are not the same at all...how valuable would this be if real? The owner lived in the USSR in the late 1970's and bought his collection then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Damn! I really should stop answering to such "requests" ... Can you believe it? This dude asked "what this is, if its real" I answered. All I've got is "you may be right, of course" Not bad! Especially from the guy who an hour earlier didn't know "what this is" ... Yep. So where we were? ...how valuable would this be if real? Zillions!!! How lucky you are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimble-nibitz Posted September 3, 2013 Author Share Posted September 3, 2013 I asked because I did not know. And you have given me your opinion. You are kind to have answered. But as the strike is not the same as the one you attached, I wondered why...is this too much to ask? I do not care about the money...I am just curious as to how one tells, and a simple "FAKE" is not very descriptive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) Let's hope that real experts (a.k.a "old timers"/"old comrades" /"insiders") will come and shed some more light on this piece ... I'll pray for this Edited September 3, 2013 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Ooooooooooooooooo. HISSIES!!!! Mraow! mraow!!!! Pfft! Pfft! Not at ALL gentlemanly! Sorry about the rudeness G-N. Old Timers, Old Comrades and Insiders all remain polite (except to each other ) and always explain opinions based on experience. I don't know ANYTHING about your Cross, for instance. Don't have one of my own for comparison, obviously. But being a St. John 20:25 kinda guy "hands on" generally beats somebody else's scans--because who knows if THEY are "right?" In-the-hand alway beats third hand. THAT comes down to point by point convincing explanation for a source whose particular interest the wuzzit is. So you're probably out of luck on this piece. What is interesting to me (because I am interested in things I know nothing about, to learn....) is the mounting system on the ribbon-- I have never seen a pre-Soviet Russian ribbon backing plate. IS that authentic? What DO they look like? The ribbon certainly appears to be silk, and if the backing plate is good (what do I know?) could that be a Tsarist St. George used to "dress up" an incredibly rare... reproduction? Orrrr.... is it a warolrd Chinese era locally made item from 1926 or 1940 or....? (Semenov's boyos ran around one town over from me with the chief of America's White Russian fascists (Vonsiatsky), shooting Thompson machine guns out their car windows back in the 1930s---they.... got around.) No, I never saw one of these crosses at a yard sale 10 minutes from my house....) In my experience of many things NOT including this cross, fakes are not one-offs. They are made by the zillions. Chicomia has been churning out utter rubbish of their own Civil War era stuff (all of mine came from Ukrainian veterans who were never-there, wink wink), and at least one PRC factory online is cheerfully reproducing Wehrmacht/SS uniforms , so given the Far Eastern nature of this award, PRC manufacturing skullduggery is always possible. In which case there should be zillions of THESE around--exact, precise, mass-produced matches. No? ONE thing that doesn't match one OTHER thing... I wouldn't gamble MY money, but apparently you didn't really, eit ther. That's what makes unexpected finds fun--even if they are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 (edited) This thread is getting better and better! At last! An expert opinion! From the series A: WTF is that? B: It is some kinda ruski medal. A: Is it for real? B: Who knows... There like zillion of them around... Some of them are fakes. Some are real. A: Ok. Thanks for info! C: Great discussion guys! ... and always explain opinions based on experience. You are obviously mistake me with yourself. Unlike you I've always backed up my opinions with evidence P.S. If G-N thinks that the "strike is not the same" (I wonder if he looked at these pictures http://cossac-awards.narod.ru/Znaki_bez_woisk_starye_files/Georg_OMO/Georgy_OM0_3.html at all ... "especially the George and dragon, are not the same at all... " Seriously?!) then so be it. At least now he knows the name of this decoration ... P.P.S. BTW, great opening insider! "I don't know ANYTHING about your Cross, for instance". Then how did you form your opinion?! Guess the same way you did it in this thread (by replacing facts and knowledge with pure unblended phantasy) http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/59213-help-id-this-badge/ or this one http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/59604-nva-medal-unidentified/ Impressive! Keep it up! :beer: Edited September 4, 2013 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Sorry about the rudeness G-N. Old Timers, Old Comrades and Insiders all remain polite (except to each other ) and always explain opinions based on experience. Some people don't have to explain... they just "Know" ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Ostapenko Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 I am not sure but think this is a White Russian award, their version of the St. George Medal...but I bet one of you knows for sure. I know nothing about these and it was included in a large medal collection. Does anyone know for sure what this is, if its real and if the number on back would yield a name, if its genuine...?? Thanks for all the help, these little things are a nice reminder that we don't know everything! Fake cross - all Semenov's crosses was white ( silver ) only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Some people don't have to explain... they just "Know" ;-) Indeed! But not only they know - they also have their evidence in hand dear Chris That's why I gave this link in my fisrt post http://cossac-awards.narod.ru/Znaki_bez_woisk_starye_files/Georg_OMO/Georgy_OM0_3.html If G-N is too busy to compare his "rarity" with this piece - it's his problem. If he doesn't see that his piece differs from the piece in the link only by added incisions and fake patina, then I can' t help him. Obviously RR didn't even bother to compare these two pieces either. Same story with you dear Chris Indeed Sus docet Minervam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Fake cross - all Semenov's crosses was white ( silver ) only Damn right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Indeed! But not only they know - they also have their evidence in hand dear Chris That's why I gave this link in my fisrt post No, Igor answered the question in 2 lines, you posted a bunch of links (of no use to anyone who cannot be bothered to read Russian), no explanation and (for me anyway) come out looking like a "quantity versus Quality" poster once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 First of all, there is such thing as web page translator. Please feel free to use it http://itools.com/tool/google-translate-web-page-translator Second, my last link has pictures. What linguistic skills one should have to look at pictures dear Chris? Another link is in english (see for yourself ) and only the first one is in russian.... and (for me anyway) come out looking like a "quantity versus Quality" poster once again. What a terrible thing to say Chris! But then again you have a first-hand knowledge of this "quantity versus Quality" posting. Actually many years of such posting ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Exactly! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Thanks for the links Nick (My computer automatically translates Russian). Nice to see images of the real thing instead of the fakes which have bedevilled the market for longer than I care to remember as Russain Civil War pieces were always well collected long before the Russian boom started.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Glad you liked it Paul (but pssssssss... this might upset quality poster #1) I wish I have 100% confidence in all these crosses. As you said the market has been bedevilled for a loooooong time ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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