Bavarian Schwere Reiter M09 Tunic

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

an anyone explain why this tunic has red piping on the collar and on the cuffs? Any why Swedish cuffs?

I read that the Bavarians adopted Red piped Swedish cuffs on the 1915 friedens Uniforn.... would this be connected to that?

[Chris Boonzaier]

Sorry, I meant I read they adopted them on the Feldgraue Waffenrock during the war (1915 or so?)

[Chris Boonzaier]

I must admit, I had a bit of a scare.... I compared it to my other jackets and thought this had extremely short arms...

Most seem to have sleeve and end pretty much on the same level... like here....

http://www.kaiserscross.com/286801/286864.html

[Chris Boonzaier]

This guy seemed to have very short arms indeed!!

But then I found another Bavarian Fieldgrey Rock that is just the same.....

http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hhm63.pl?f=NR_LOT&c=2504&t=temartic_A_GB&db=kat63_a.txt

I guess it must be Bavarian Fashion....

[Chris Boonzaier]

Here is the one copyright hermann historica...

[Chris Boonzaier]

Here is the other one, Bavarian reserve infanterie regiment 1

[Chris Boonzaier]

Ehat I find interesting is the Herman Historica one has sewn in Shoulder boards... so does mine.... but when you look at them, they still have the tab under them for slip on boards... and the boards themselves are slip on, and still have THEIR tabs underneath.

So the tailor took a jacket with slip on boards, and sewed them in, without changing the boards or the jacket!!

[Chris Boonzaier]

The odyssey continues.... Regimentals has hasically the same thing (2 of them) but has them as bavarian schwere reiter.... ??

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hmmm... I am a bit confused here ...

I have no doubt about the authenticity of this piece, the wear and the slight moth tracking etc all fit perfectly... but the green collar is hard to place... I have found one period pic of a bavarian officer with a green collar, is it a war time anomoly?

Best

Chris

[Joe Sweeney]

Chris,

I can't help on the Officers tunic, but I thought I would chime in just so it does not look too much like a gollum/smeagal conversation (I'm only seeing you talking to you)

Take care,

Joe Sweeney

[Chris Boonzaier]

My Precious!!!! ;-)

[Hoss]

Blimey

Talking to yourself make an appointment with a shrink asap.

Confuhoss say....guy with short arms never get first round in

Eric

[Hoss]

After 10mins thumbing back to original post did not army have longer tunics and artillery errr shorter?

or arms same length man have shorter 'trunk'. lol!

confuhoss also say...man with short arm have trouble pee pee

[Chip]

Hoss,

Just so you won't feel alone, I'll agree with you. :)

[Chip]

This is one reason why I am not a fan of officer's and private purchase NCO's tunics. During the war there was a lot of liberty taken with the regulations, especially in the area of hybrid mixes of M10 and M15/16 tunic features.

Chip

[Chip]

can anyone explain why this tunic has red piping on the collar and on the cuffs? Any why Swedish cuffs?

I read that the Bavarians adopted Red piped Swedish cuffs on the 1915 friedens Uniforn.... would this be connected to that?

Chris,

Have you considered that this might not be an infantry tunic? In examining your photos, the shoulder boards do not seem to match the condition of the tunic. One has moth holes and the other appears to have a staining of the Unterlage. This also might explain why they were sewn in rather than just buttoned on using the loops.

I believe that Beamten wore red piped Swedish cuffs. Anyway, something to think about.

I don't think these cuffs are connected to the adoption of red piped barrel cuffs on the Bavarian Bluse. The cuffs shown are not barrel cuffs, but rather normal sized Swedish cuffs with buttons.

Chip

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

I am open to suggestions. Hermann Historica had more or less the same with a "2" on the boards, they say it is 2nd infantry, but cannot be as the 2nd had a cypher.

Regimentals has 2 such tunics but identifies them as Bavarian Heavy Cavalry.

The boards are of course worth discussing. The minimal mothing on the jacket is on the one board and on the collar close to it, but just on the front side of one. Taking into account the Jacket is set up for slip on boards... and these themselves are slip on... sewing them in is taking a lot of trouble for no reason. Would have been waaaaaaay easier just to grab a new set of boards and slip them on, no need to sew anything.

(Once again, the Herman H and Regimentals one ALSO have the boards sewn in). If someone was to do a dodgy, it would have been better to have the moth nips facing backwards. I will check the discoloring when I have a chance to get at it again.)

Although a bit dissapointing if it were not Infantry... Schwere Reiter is not the worse thing it could be... there is not a lot of Info about cavalry uniforms online.

I stupidly did not buy some books on Feldgrau this weekend... I should have, but the money ran out :-(

(I did not ignore your thought on Beamte, but the old traces of medal loops make me think this unlikely, he would have had 3 medals and a pin back medal...which i think may have been a lot for an official)

[Chris Boonzaier]

After 10mins thumbing back to original post did not army have longer tunics and artillery errr shorter?

or arms same length man have shorter 'trunk'. lol!

confuhoss also say...man with short arm have trouble pee pee

haha... you are right... there is a the army... then the artillery

The sleeves seem to be ok, it is the tunic that is very long compared to others.... but same as the Herman H and Regimentals ones with this set up.....

[Hoss]

Chris

I have the two smaller Kraus volumes they are wonderful but in German means type everything in translate on something of interest. I have a m15 and a mantel with stitched boards on top of the loops. I know I only 'play war games' but notice slip-ons are a pain always getting snagged on things, may mean something in fact one learns alot just wearing the same clobber for a few days ie: steel helmets I can't stand it for more than half an hour at a time.

Sorry gone on abit its the meds.

Eric

[Chris Boonzaier]

Sorry gone on abit its the meds.

Eric

Viagra... what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas... I saw the movie ;-)

[Joe Sweeney]

There might be a misconception here about tunic, bluse and einheitsmantels that look to be set-up for removable boards.

In 1916 the "schlaufe" (Sic) was introduced that looked like the old loop for removable boards. That was not the intent, the schlaufe was supposed to allow for the sewn on (in for Bavaria) board to be folded underneath it. This was a security measure.

So having the schlaufe with sewn on boards is by regulation. I see lots of repro garments for reenactors with removable boards and this is not what should be done. I also lots of reenactor sites that say the unpiped boards are late war and Great coat which is not true--unpiped boards 5.5cm wide were introduced in Jan 1915 for Army wide use to replace Korps piped boards and the M15 boards were meant to replace those.

Wearing removable boards with a schlaufe was done but not regulation.

Joe Sweeney

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

the schlaufe here are too narrow to fold anything underneath it, it is maybe 1.5cm wide and is just wide enough to slip the Lasche on the back of the board through it,

Best

Chris

P.S. If anyone feels like going the thread on the different kinds of OR boards, i would be greatful, I am a bit in the dark about the different kinds. :-)

[Joe Sweeney]

Chris,

I guess that's why I could not see the loop.

Good idea on the OR boards--I do not have a collection of OR boards but can post some examples of mine to start-off.

Joe Sweeney

Edited December 4, 2013 by Joe Sweeney

[Chris Boonzaier]

Here is the collar

[Chris Boonzaier]

I asked Regimentals how they identified the piping and cuffs as Being Bavarian ScHwerer Reiter, apparenly it is from a Photo in the Kraus book with the stuff from the bavarian archive... does anyone have one of these? Is it worth getting?

Thanks

CHRIS