Hessian Krieger Ehrenzeichen in Eisen

[dond]

Hows this baby look?

Don

[dond]

The reverse.

Don

[Stogieman]

Hi Don, the quality of this piece is suspect I think. It looks like a cast copy. I will try to pull some fotos from my archives tonight, but the hinge/pin and casting flaws don't look consistent with original examples I've seen.

[dond]

Thanks Rick. I still have a chance to return it.

Don

[Gerd Becker]

Don,

i agree with Ricks points. The back is very crude like typical on castings. I would return it.

all the best,

Gerd

[Ralph A]

It's iron, right? Mustn't iron be cast?

[Guest Rick Research]

It may theoretically have been made in iron, but I've never seen one actually made in that. White metal, alloys blackened, even silver...

I'm not sure the "cast" roughness in Don's scan might not simply be the scan picking up the yucky slapped on and worn/chipped black PAINT, like Oldenburg Friedrich August Crosses.

Here are two scans (blue background from a camera not scanner) of the SAME piece which I used to own. Its wreath was SMOOTH backed alloy metal, painted black, and the wear and chipping to the black paint looks "rough" depending on how the image came out.

[attachmentid=3969]

[attachmentid=3970]

As I recall, the center of mine was silvered zink-ish, and looks much like the one above. I like the flat, blunt end pin. "Scanner issues," I think, not originality problems. But only IN HAND can tell, and I don't have this any more to inspect again "live."

[attachmentid=3971]

Is the METAL smooth on yours, Don?

[Gerd Becker]

Well, i see a very uneven back on that badge, but like Rick said, it could be the scan. Can you make a sideshot of the badge with a bit more light?

Though, Catch, Pin and hinge are different to the examples from Rick. But thats also possible, like we know from other badges.

best,

Gerd

[Guest Rick Research]

Yup, I've seen screwbacks... all sorts of variations.

I wish I could be more definite one way or the other, but my gut impression is this is probably OK, and the scanner is just making it look worse than it really is because of the paint wear coming out as more "three dimensional" LOOKING than it actually is.

[Gerd Becker]

Yup, I've seen screwbacks... all sorts of variations.

I wish I could be more definite one way or the other, but my gut impression is this is probably OK, and the scanner is just making it look worse than it really is because of the paint wear coming out as more "three dimensional" LOOKING than it actually is.

←

Yes, i am also unsure now. I would like to see a sideshot to be sure. Here is a comparison of Don?s badge with one of Rick?s examples:

Edited June 10, 2005 by Gerd

[dond]

Side shots. I'll take some pics tomorrow.

thanks

Don

[Stogieman]

There's some very distinct differences between the shape and cut-outs on Rick's example and on Don's........

[Stogieman]

Also....... note the very different catch and hinge

[Mike K]

Hi,

Personally I don't have a problem with Don's example, if only because my own example (which I don't have a problem with - construction or materials) is also made from geschwartz eisen wreath and (bubbled) versilbert zinc attachment with the same hinge/pin/catch! The wreath has distinct shear marks on the edges, even though there are a couple of rough patches on the reverse under the blackening. Making a cast repro of anything in iron would be difficult due to the relatively high temps required. If this type is a repro it is of extremely scary good quality.

I was surprised to hear Rick's comment that he hadn't seen any in iron, as I thought the official title of the award was "Krieger-Ehrenzeichen in EISEN"! Nimmergut's little guides, for what they are worth, list only Iron or Silver examples (blackened and silvered.

Regards

Mike K

My example for comparison;

[Mike K]

blurry scan Reverse...

[Gerd Becker]

After seeing Mike?s example, i am much more confident, that its a good one. NIce badge, Mike.

Gerd

[dond]

I want to thank everyone for thier comments. Discussion is how we learn and God knows I need to learn. For me this is an excellent badge. The wreath is iron which accounts for the slaggy look on the back. There are no cast lines or pitting to indicate a fake. The zink cypher has a bit of deterioration that I will treat. The whole badge reeks of age. It displays the effects of being almost 100 years old. I think I will keep it.

Thanks again.

Don

[David Gregory]

The examples shown by Don and Mike are, like the one below, the most common type of the handful that I have seen.

The front of this "salty" example looks as though a previous owner tried to improve its looks by buffing it with a polishing wheel.

[David Gregory]

The back displays the same cast finish on the wreath as Don and Mike's examples.

Judging by what I paid for it as a badly photographed and incorrectly described "lapel pin" on German eBay (about Euros 17, if I recall correctly), I am confident that it and the ones like it above are all good.

[David Gregory]

The only Hessen KEZ in iron that I have seen and don't like is the one offered by eBay user raritaetensammlerclub and also offered in his bewildering array of badges and awards, all of which I believe are fakes, at http://www.ordensammler.com/html/940_silber.html

He recently sold one that I believe is a fake, if for no other reason than association with all of his other recast badges and awards, at http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...item=6521509738

Before the image disappears, here it is for posterity.

/David

[Stogieman]

Well, live and learn.... but I (personally) would not be comfortable with this badge looking like this. But I guess that could be chalked up to what appears to be very poor quality on Hesse's highest bravery decoration.

[dond]

Some shots of it with the camera. It really doesn't look bad. I think the scanner made it appear worse.

Don

[dond]

The reverse.

[dond]

From Detlev's update: Warrior honor badge in iron [5659] Sold State II

Wreath in black iron. Pin back version . This was the highest Hessian bravery decoration for enlisted soldiers during WWI.

[Gerd Becker]

Don,

i had the opportunity to handle Davids badge last weekend and i am conviced, its an original as is yours.

Gerd