Gordon Williamson Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Just acquired today. Silver Second Pattern U-Boat Clasps are difficult enough to find in any condition, but often show signs of age bubbling to the silvering. First one I've seen in ages which is virtually faultless and a good companion for my Silver First Pattern shown below it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Beautiful Gordon Rare to see them both in so good condition ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Williamson Posted August 13, 2005 Author Share Posted August 13, 2005 Thanks Jacques, it has taken me a very l o n g time to find a silver Second Pattern as nice as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunter Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Congratulations on your splendid new addition! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Arne S Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 Hi Gordon !Very Very nice U-Boat Clasps in Silver .Jan Arne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al P Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 A very nice example!!! This one must have been stored very well for the last 60 years.Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darrell Posted August 17, 2005 Share Posted August 17, 2005 Nice pieces for sure P.S. Al .... now that Gordon has two ... he might offer one to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byf Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 I have never had many KM items and currently have but one U-Boot badge. What would a sailor needed to have done to be awarded one of these? Thanks.byf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al P Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 For the U-Boat badge it was 2 war cruises, but for the clasp it gets a bit confusing. In about the middle of 1944 the (bronze) clasp was introduced but with no pre set criteria for awards. It was given for a number of reasons including bravery or other outstanding service, number of missions etc. The only thing of note is that Donitz himself had to approve the award. The silver came out later (1944/45???) In 1944 the situation for the U-Boat crews was not good, so you can imagine that these are quite rare. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftwaffe Rules Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Shew sir!! Very nice piece!! ROCK ON Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byf Posted August 27, 2005 Share Posted August 27, 2005 Thanks for the info ALp. Yes I know of the situation in the later years of the KM.If Doenitz had gotten what he wanted when he wanted they would have won. I guess it's good for us that Dolf couldn't see the big picture.byf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Clark Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 lovely very nice anychance of pics of the mmThanks for the info ALp. Yes I know of the situation in the later years of the KM.If Doenitz had gotten what he wanted when he wanted they would have won. I guess it's good for us that Dolf couldn't see the big picture.byf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmiller Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 (edited) Gordon,I still marvel at your 1st Pattern in Silver. Doubt I'll ever own one, let alone see one! My 2nd Pattern is starting to bubble on the obverse. Almost too much glare in the scan, but still great silvering.Best Regards,Mark[attachmentid=24847] Edited January 28, 2006 by mmiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmiller Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 (edited) Sorry,Needed additional file size, for the reverse image.Mark[attachmentid=24848] Edited January 28, 2006 by mmiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Williamson Posted January 28, 2006 Author Share Posted January 28, 2006 Hi Mark,Yes, thats the first Second Pattern in 40 years of collecting that I have ever had in that sort of condition with no sign of bubbling. Likewise the First Pattern, I have had a couple of other First Pattern silvers thgrough my hands but never seen another in this condition. Definitely my favourite piece.A lot of the Second Patterns I have seen with better finish seemed to have a flash coat of copper over the zinc before the silvering was applied and I wonder if this combination has something to do with preventing the bubbling. This coppering process was also common in some zink cap insignia ( SS skulls etc) and even on the backplate of the DKs where you can see the sandwich effect, and they didn't suffer from this bubbling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmiller Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Hi Gordon,The bottom (copper) coat theory would sure give the silver wash a primer to adhere to, thus inhibiting the bubbling we regularly see. I guess we could speculate that the 'early ones' (relative) had the copper, prior to it becoming destined solely for rifled rounds.Are the 1st Patterns zinc, too, or are they buntmetal? Any surface scratches that would reveal copper cladding on the 1st Pattern?I'd offer my left one (please censor if needed) for a 1st Pattern!MarkHi Mark,Yes, thats the first Second Pattern in 40 years of collecting that I have ever had in that sort of condition with no sign of bubbling. Likewise the First Pattern, I have had a couple of other First Pattern silvers thgrough my hands but never seen another in this condition. Definitely my favourite piece.A lot of the Second Patterns I have seen with better finish seemed to have a flash coat of copper over the zinc before the silvering was applied and I wonder if this combination has something to do with preventing the bubbling. This coppering process was also common in some zink cap insignia ( SS skulls etc) and even on the backplate of the DKs where you can see the sandwich effect, and they didn't suffer from this bubbling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Williamson Posted January 28, 2006 Author Share Posted January 28, 2006 Mark,The First Patterns are die cast zink too which is interesting as it certainly (for me at least) gives the lie to the claim that some early pieces in the Second Pattern were made in Tombak. That would be a first ! Early pieces in zink, followed by later patterns in Tombak ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmiller Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Maybe that is one of those newly discovered phenomena...... MarkEarly pieces in zink, followed by later patterns in Tombak ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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