My newest acquisitions ...

[saschaw]

Here are my newest acquisitions, a set of three nice ribbon bars to one person. After having bad luck with ribbon bars, I'm pretty sure those are good. They came up on a German forum with most of the lose decorations and some more stuff, but the seller sold the orders and forgot about the ribbon bars which are mine now. No problem for me about that splitting, I don't mind those lose stuff I can buy within two weeks - there was no medal bar. The wearer must have loved Mr. Hitler for making three awards in 1918 increase to eight or nine in 1945, for presumably not doing too much ...

The Italian Crown order disappears on the last bar so I think this a very late one, from times when Italy wasn't "our friend" anymore - 1944/1945, and it was apparently awarded post 1934 but pre 1938. He seems to have seen combat in WW II, but his long service award is just a Treudienst-Ehrenzeichen. I'm not sure what kind of person this was? Is there a chance to find him? The seller claimed it was a "v. Domarus" or similar, but I cannot find such a name neither in Mr. Roth's nor in Mr. RR's Z?hringer lists, so I think this isn't a match ...

[HeikoGrusdat]

hhhhhmmmmmmmmmmm..............Sascha, you are a real digger

three were shown on SDA, two were sold on ebay - and now (who is the next Uri Geller?) - here are three again together!!!!!

very cool set of ribbon bars - great job!!!

[saschaw]

very cool set of ribbon bars - great job!!!

Thanks, but weeeell it wasn't a job, the seller still had it - but it was too bad to be on eBay, there's an eeeevil swastika ...

[HeikoGrusdat]

evil ebay rules........

you have a pm on SDA

[webr55]

Very interesting bars, congratulations.

The bottom bar must be the earliest one, 1934/35. Then he got the Italian Crown Order Officer, awarded up to Major level - Oberstleutnants already got the commander grade.

Maybe the last bar on top is missing a second row...?

[saschaw]

Thanks for your input ...

Maybe the last bar on top is missing a second row...?

... but this would mean seven more awards from beginning 1938 to 1945 ... ? Is this possible? I'd wonder but am not that much into WW II awards ... isn't my version likely, that the upper bar dates from "Italy is now enemy"-times, shortly before end of WW II? [edit: this was yet in july 1943, thought it was later]

Edited January 8, 2008 by saschaw

[webr55]

Thanks for your input ...

... but this would mean seven more awards from beginning 1938 to 1945 ... ? Is this possible? I'd wonder but am not that much into WW II awards ... isn't my version likely, that the upper bar dates from "Italy is now enemy"-times, shortly before end of WW II? [edit: this was yet in july 1943, thought it was later]

Possible, yes. But we have examples of bars in wear where the two rows are not the same length.

[Guest Rick Research]

Show us the backs.

The middle ribbon bar has no hole from a long service ribbon with never any device on it?

One thing you can be sure of-- this guy was a Leutnant or Leutnant der Reserve during the 1st war--> Silver Merit Medal on MKFVO ribbon and then the BZ3bX.

The plain long service on the middle ribbon bar is what throws this off as a set to ONE person for me-- that doesn't match with the Treudienst.

Did you save scans of the medal bars etc?

Maybe the backs will tell us more.

[saschaw]

Sorry, no backs by now, as they're still in the post and he didn't show pictures yet. There was, as I said, _no_ medal bar but the single awards and some more that may have been from the father e.g.

As there was not a second similar lot I'm pretty sure those three *are* a set. If they are, the middle bar dates from January 30th (institution of Treudienst-Ehrenzeichen) to March 1938 - Austria medal. Can we be sure the outfitter had the device for a Treudienst-Ehrenzeichen in this times? I'd think it's possible to find bars without the device, e.g. in this short time frame.

Edit:

I just realized that Prussian long service award IInd class in the right corner that he may have gotten as a NCO, if he was in the navy or a Prussian unit. A Baden NCO should otherwise have gotte a Baden long service award - is it possible he got that one but didn't wear it anymore after getting the TD-EZ in 1938 ... ?

Edited January 8, 2008 by saschaw

[webr55]

Aha! This is clearly not a lot for one person, maybe for several members of a family! We have the Centenary, an NCO or Landwehr DA (which he would not have dropped on his later bar), Baden Jubilee medal, Z?hringen Verdienstkreuz.

[Deruelle]

Nice ribbon bars Saschaw. Very interresting indeed

Christophe

[webr55]

BTW, here's the ebay picture of the backs: Light green for the bar with the Italian order.

[saschaw]

BTW, here's the ebay picture of the backs: Light green for the bar with the Italian order.

Ups, I didn't look and thougt there was'n a picture - but nothing peculiar the back tells us, hum?

Aha! This is clearly not a lot for one person, maybe for several members of a family!

Yes that's right, I'd say this is mostly by two persons: one who made it in WWI from NCO to Leutnant and an elderly one who might have been his father (or uncle, or very very old brother, or father in law). Though I think the three bars *are* a set as there's ONE Z?hringer Knight, ONE Treudienst-Ehrenzeichen, ONE Austria medal, NONE Sudetenland (and don't ask why this one is missing). I hope they'll arrive tomorrow ...

[Naxos]

Very nice bars Sascha,

I especially like the fact that it shows that the owner was (like you say) a NCO (probably Vizefeldwebel) with the Badische Verdienstmedaille - then was promoted to Leutnant and awarded the Z?hringer L?wen Orden.

Hardy

[saschaw]

The bars are now here, came just yesterday. Thanks for all comments by now, but is there some more information for me?

The 6 place bar is nice quality, may be pre war (or about 1938), the big one has ugly cheap devices, may be from end of the war, about 1944 - so I still believe I'm right that this is a set. Rick, can you exclude for sure a Treudienst-Ehrenzeichen was worn without devices in the first months after its institution? An Italian order would not have been worn in 1944/45, so it _makes_ sense, and as they came like this ...

No chance to identify him unless the documents or a named photo comes up, right? But what presons would have gotten a combination like this? The big's backing is grey, think this doesn't help ...