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HI, VERY NEW AT THIS SO PLEASE BARE WITH ME, AFTER 15 YEARS IN MY POSSESSION I HAVE FINALLY OPENED UP MY OLD MANS WAR BOOTY BOX HE SERVED IN THE 6TH AIRBORNE AND SAW ACTION FROM D-DAY TO THE END OF THE GERMAN WAR AND AS A REWARD THEY  SENT THEM OUT TO THE FAR EAST . MOST OF THE GERMAN EQUIPMENT HE PICKED UP HIMSELF AND I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THEY ARE GENUINE AND I REMEMBER SEEING ONE OF THESE DAGGERS WITH THE CORD SIXTY ODD YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS A LOT YOUNGER, BUT I CANT REMEMBER SEEING THE DAGGER THAT HAS NO SCABBARD. CAN ANYONE THROW ANY LIGHT ON THESE. THANKS

War Medals_9572.jpg

War Medals_9579.jpg

War Medals_9599.jpg

War Medals_9615.jpg

War Medals_9617.jpg

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Welcome to GMIC. Any chance you can take a few close up photos so the makers marks can be seen clearly. Ta.  

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Hi enclosed are some enlargements, one dagger with the scabbard missing is very shoddy and the wood handle does not fit as you would expect and shows a split, both are possibly late war built as there  

appears to be no other markings. RZM Marked with 807/36 on the more tatty one and RZM M7/36 on the other. Thank you for taking an interest.War Medals_9579b.jpgWar Medals_9599c.jpgWar Medals_9607b.jpgWar Medals_9615b.jpgWar Medals_9617b.jpg

 

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I'm pretty sure that both of these daggers are made from parts. The second one without scabbard definitely. Although I'm sure they are precious to you as belonging to your father, as collector's pieces they are erm, sorry...pretty bad. Most of these daggers were manufactured before the war when mass production was in it's infancy, daggers like these were expensive and made by hand. Each dagger was fitted together very carefully and individually, there were no gaps or errors, each handle was finished to perfection. An original untouched SA or SS dagger is really quite a beautiful thing to hold. 

The blade RZM markings were a sort of quality check on later manufactured daggers - probably being used from about 1934 onwards. The 807/36 marked blade is the SS contract number followed by the year of manufacture i.e. 1936 while the M7/36 marked blade is the manufacturer's code made by E&F Horster of Solingen.

Have a look here on the description of SS daggers

https://www.lakesidetrader.com/Education/Meine-Ehre-heisst-Treue/

 

 

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Keep in mind that US troops overran most of the supply depots and factories responsible for the issue and manufacture of Nazi medals, awards and paraphenalia and that before the shooting was done there was a huge market for souvenirs, especially 'sexy' stuff like Iron Crosses and SS items.  It's certainly the case, for example, that the US Marines on Guadalcanal had an industry going making 'Japanese battle flags' within weeks of the capture of the island.  Similarly, Iron Crosses, as an example, were being manufactured from parts found in warehouses certainly by 1946 if not late '45.

So, the fact that these came out of a vet's effects sugests that they are 'contemporary' to his service, but not that they were taken from sereving members of the SS.  So, as Spasm says, important to your family I hope, but of far less imprtance to collectors. :(

 

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In the book " German Military Cuffbands" by G.Williamson & T. McGuirl.You can see a youngster selling copy cuffbands ,as souvenir, before the end of the war!!
His picture appeared in Life magazine of august 6 1945.
It says also they where not made to fool any one , they where just made for the "new collector's market".

I know cuffbands are no daggers, but things weren't any different for any other military souvenir.

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I really like them, it's cool that your Dad brought them back, I hope you kept them..... 

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Posted (edited)

I am glad to you came to this forum to get an evaluation.  If you went on the Wehrmacht Awards Forum I am afraid you would not have gotten such a nice response as you did here.  There are some “elites” on there that like to laugh new members and collectors right off the internet. Not all are bad, but the SS and Dagger “monkeys” seem to be very rude for the most part because they don’t feel new collectors are not worth their time.  I have seen them run some very nice people off.  The rest of them seem to really try to help people out; that is why I don’t show anything on there.  What I saw them do to a young guy was just horrible in the last week.  If your Dad brought them back there are priceless to you.  Good for you finding them. Welcome to the forum.

Edited by ostprussenmann_new

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6 hours ago, ostprussenmann_new said:

 ....that is why I don’t show anything on there.  ...

I am very careful there too !

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