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Here is a Romanian unofficial type 1. It has only minor die variations compared to the official strike. It is suspended by a much smaller ball than the official and unofficial type 1. The major difference is that it doesn't have the designers name on the reverse. There are also minor variations in the lettering in the country rings on the reverse. Diameter is 36.5 mm.

It was produced by, an as yet, unknown French manufacturer. It has been reported some have the word 'BRONZE' on the edge whereas this one has no edge markings. Strangely enough it is found a bit less often than the official strikes.

Close-up of the reverse area lacking the designers name to follow.

Regards,

Rob

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For Tim and all,

Here is a Romanian 'unofficial' type 3. It has a cylinder type suspender and is a bit more crude in appearance compared to the official and unofficial type 1 and type 2 varieties.

Of note on the reverse is the much thinner rings between the country name links as well as the replacement of all the letter 'G' with the letter 'C'. It was produced by a number of different local Romanian manufacturers. There are quite a lot of minor variations between different manufacturers as well.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW

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And the close-up of the reverse area without the designers name.

Regards,

Rob

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To all,

Here is a Romanian unofficial type 2 or more commonly referred to as the 'Reverse N' variety.

It has some more variations to the design compared to the official strike and the unofficial type 1. It was produced by an unknown local Romanian manufacturer. It is 36.6 mm in diameter. Other examples have been seen with a gilt finish. The interesting feature of this variety is that on the reverse the letter 'N' is reverse on all the allied nation name rings, as well as having the letter 'G' replaced by a letter 'C'.

A close-up of the reverse showing the reversed 'N's will follow.

Regards,

Rob

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And a close-up of the reverse.

Regards,

Rob

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Here is a Romanian unofficial type 3. It has a cylinder type suspender and is a bit more crude in appearance compared to the official and unofficial type 1 and type 2 varieties.

Of note on the reverse is the much thinner rings between the country name links as well as the replacement of all the letter 'G' with the letter 'C'. It was produced by a number of different local Romanian manufacturers. There are quite a lot of minor variations between different manufacturers as well.

Regards,

Rob

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And to go from medals to documents here is an award brevet.

It is a longer document and as a consequence I had to scan it in two parts and then put it back together in Photoshop. Unusually it is in good condition.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW

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And to go from medals to documents here is an award brevet for the Romanian vic. I have also posted this on the specific Romanian vic thread for completeness.

It is a longer document and as a consequence I had to scan it in two parts and then put it back together in Photoshop. Unusually it is in good condition as many others are quite damaged from being carried or folded.

It is signed with a stamped signature of the Minister of War near a circular stamp of the Ministry with the signature of the Director of personal on the right.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW

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Hallo RobW, :cheers:

Nice document, :jumping:

interesting to see its dated for November 15th 1923.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

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Rob,

Very nice document! I missed two Greek Victory Medal certificates a couple years ago, both matching and in near mint condtion. I didn't realize then just how rare they really were. :banger:

Tim

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Kevin,

Being in Romania, just how hard is it to find period originals in decent condition these days? I am really looking for one or two "official" versions with nice ribbons. Any clues on availabilty and pricing?

Really nice to have other collectors that enjoy these medals as much as I do (more actually)!

Tim :beer:

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Rob,

Very nice document! I missed two Greek Victory Medal certificates a couple years ago, both matching and in near mint condtion. I didn't realize then just how rare they really were. :banger:

Tim

Hello Tim,

Yes they are rare indeed! I'm still looking for them as well. I have seen an un-issued one but not one that is signed. Any further details would be appreciated. :D

Rob

Edited by RobW

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Hallo RobW, :cheers:

Nice document, :jumping:

interesting to see its dated for November 15th 1923.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

Hello Kev,

I have a few of the award brevets. They were issued in the years 1923, 1924, and 1925.

As far as I knew the majority of the documents were awarded between 1921-1927. Is there any significance to the date in November 1923?

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW

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And to go from medals to documents here is an award brevet.

It is a longer document and as a consequence I had to scan it in two parts and then put it back together in Photoshop. Unusually it is in good condition.

To put names and faces to signatures, Minister of War between 1922 and 1926 had been General Gheorghe Mărdărescu.

47_G.sized.jpg

(from the Photo gallery of the Ministry of Defense))

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The Romanian Victory Medal was established by King Ferdinand I on the 20th of July 1921 with High Decree No. 3.390/921. Award criteria for the Victory medal were issued in Ministry of War Decision No. 847 of 3rd of August 1921.

According to High Decree No. 3.390/921, all personnel who effectively took part in the fighting at anytime between 28th August 1916 and 31st of March 1921 were eligible for the Victory Medal.

The late date was probably intended to recognize operations following WW1 which lead to the annexation of Transylvanian region of Hungary.

The last statement requires some corrections. Following the union of Transylvania with Romania on 1 December 1918, the Soviet Republic of Bela Kun planned an offensive against Romania in the spring of 1919 and begun a military buildup at the frontier. The Hungarian attack triggered the Romanian reaction and eventually the fall of the Hungarian Soviet Republic. The Romanian army units withdrew completely from the Hungarian territory by the spring of 1920. Activities after that date regard operations against the Bolshevik units that attacked the Dniester frontier in the East.

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My contribution to this topic, an unofficial type 2 medal (with reversed "N"-s and replaced "G"-s). It belonged to Ion Stoenescu, a junior officer in WWI.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2009/post-2129-125464904983.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_10_2009/post-2129-125464906841.jpg

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To all,

Here is another 'official' Romanian vic. This one has the word 'BRONZE' inscribed on the edge.

Just visible in this scan is the designers name 'Kristesko' on the reverse.

Regards,

Rob

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To all,

To add to the others posted of late here is another 'official' Romanian vic. This one has the word 'BRONZE' impressed on the edge.

Just visible in this scan is the designers name 'Kristesko' on the reverse.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW

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It's really interesting at the wide variety of ribbon colors for these medals (all countries) over the years; almost makes it a separate avenue of collecting in it's own right.

Here's one I missed sometime back (unofficial Type 3A in the center). Beautiful ribbon! :love: I am still looking for a nice "official" one of these BTW! :whistle:

Tim

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To all,

Here is a nice Romanian group of 9 that I recently picked up. While the group has a certain level of wear, loss of enamel, and gilding loss on some of the medals I like it because it shows that the item was worn and displayed by its recipient.

* Order of the Star, Officer.

* Order of the Crown, Knight, gilt (possibly Lemaitre).

* Order of the Crown, Knight, silver.

* 25 Years' Military Service medal.

* Commemorative Medal for the Second Balkan War 1913.

* Commemorative Cross of the 1916-1918 War, ARDEAL, CARPATI, MARASESTI, BUCURESTI clasps.

* Medal for Manhood and Loyalty, variation with designer's name (F. PAWLIK F.E.C.) on obverse and maker's name (RESCH) on reverse.

* Official victory medal, with KRISTESKU designers name on the reverse.

* Medal for the Jubilee of Carol I, military version.

Of note is that it appears, to my untrained eye, that there are two different style of swords in between the arms of the Cross on the two Orders of the Crown. Would this indicate different manufacturers or just later design changes?

Not having any specific knowledge on Romanian medals could anybody assist in identifying the time period the two Orders were produced, and who was the likely manufacturer??

I would appreciate any and all opinions.

Regards,

Rob

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And the reverse.

Regards,

Rob

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To all,

This has already been posted on the specific thread in the Romanian section which discussed specifics of the 9 piece group. It is also relevant to the context of this vic thread as well.

Here is a close-up of the official Romanian vic from that group with the KRISTESKU mark noticeable on the reverse.

This to me is interesting because a large number of Romanian groups that I have seen pics of have had one of the myriad of unofficial vics mounted. I like this specimen because it has very few scratches or marks and appears to be in very good shape considering the bar was probably made around the 1930-1940s.

Regards,

Rob

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Let's backtrack for a moment to the Rumanian VIC.

Understanding the Laslo reference is now somewhat dated, with more information coming to light since his last revision in 1992 and more items being seen these days on the market; what do you think of this piece?

It was listed as an original with the designer's name "Kristesko" on the reverse. However, there are noticeable die differences between the official Type 1 that Laslo describes in his book and this one. Is this another modern example with the name added, or is it an authentic version Laslo did not cover?

Tim

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Here's a comparison of the front compared to Rob's Official Type 1 shown earlier in the thread. Note just some of the areas called out.

- The hair seems slightly more cropped on this one as compared to the original (right).

- The left wing appears ever so slightly shorter. Not sure if it's just the lighting or angle, but it looks differernt.

- The sword has a noticeable taper, more so than the original Type 1 shows.

- Victory's right foot (on the left) dips further down over the exergue than it does on the original Type 1.

- The drape of the dress does not come to a point as it does on the original.

Tim

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And, a comparison of the designer's name which looks very close IMO.

Thoughts?

Tim

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