slava1stclass

Gerd, I guess since he wasn't an Olympic medal winner, he stood no chance - unlike the below lady who was awarded the Hero of Russia for her "leading achievements in sports, courage and heroism displayed at the ХVIII Winter Olympics in 1998." Falling on that very hard ice after a failed triple Lutz jump is especially life threatening you know... http://www.warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=3070 So is das Leben mein Freund. Regards, slava1stclass

To all: As the commander of JS-1 heavy tank # 632 who fought at Seelow Heights, crossed the Landwehr canal into Berlin under fire and was personally involved in the battle to capture/secure Tempelhof airport, what else did this young Guards junior lieutenant need to do? Regards, slava1stclass

To all: On 12 July 1945, Field Marshal Montgomery, acting on behalf of the King of England, presented honorary British knighthoods to the following Red Army officers: Marshal of the Soviet Union Zhukov; Commander, 1st Belorussian Front - Knight Grand Cross of The Most Honourable Order of the Bath (G.C.B.) Marshal of the Soviet Union Rokossovskiy; Commander, 2nd Belorussian Front - Knight Commander of The Most Honourable Order of the Bath (K.C.B.) General of the Army Sokolovskiy; Deputy Commander, 1st Belorussian Front - Knight Commander of The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire (K.B.E.) Colonel General Malinin; Chief of Staff, 1st Belorussian Front - Knight Commander of The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire (K.B.E.) The ceremony took place in the heart of shattered Berlin directly underneath the Brandenburg Gate. The Kings Company of the Grenadier Guards formed the Guard of Honor with tanks of the Kings 8th Royal Irish Hussars drawn up on either side. Regards, slava1stclass

To all: http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=16378 This makes our poor Order of Glory 1st Class look like chump change. Regards, slava1stclass

To all: Absolutely no slow down whatsoever in the appreciation of the Order of Glory 1st Class - at least as concerns dealers' asking prices: http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=16644 Note, too, the presence of a maker's mark on the reverse side. Regards, slava1stclass

To all: http://www.warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=477 - one example of several such instances. Facts always trump speculation, conjecture and, in select cases, ignorance. Regards, slava1stclass

To all: The ranking in post # 1 above remains valid as of 22 January 2007. Regards, slava1stclass

To all: I have positively identified the second Full Cavalier in Post # 1 above. I will now work to i.d. these new men (Posts # 7 and 11). Regards, slava1stclass

To all: Kevin is spot on. One thing we know with certainty, however, is that historians can put a figure on the number of unarmed Bosnian Muslim boys and men massacred by the Bosnian Serbs at Srebrenica. Regards, slava1stclass

Kevin, You were getting your copy of Militaria and I was purchasing live trout, baguette, cheese and red wine. By the way, the frog legs and baked Alaska at their le Pavillon du Lac Officers' Club were to die for. Those were the days! Regards, slava1stclass

To all: As the old Serbian proverb goes: "Лепа реч и гвоздена врата отвара." I sincerely wish Herr Zulus good luck in his efforts to secure documentation that will bring definitive closure to this case. Even if the remaining research should come back negative, we can rest assured this group of orders will forever remain in the hands of a devoted collector. Regards, slava1stclass

To all: Dave captures my sentiments exactly - sentiments which I've expressed in some of the earliest posts in this thread. - Do the three Orders of Glory alleged to have been awarded to G. appear legit - yes. - Does G's Full Cavalier booklet appear legit (the Order of Glory 1st Class s/n number discrepancy aside) - yes. - Would I personally want to include this set in my own Full Cavalier collection knowing what we know (or better yet, don't know) - no. Don't take me wrong, I certainly wish Herr Zulus good luck in his search for indisputable hard evidence to clarify/justify this exceptional case. Absent such proof, however, a heavy cloud of suspicion/doubt will always hang over this set for the reasons Dave has so clearly articulated. Regards, slava1stclass

Dave, Your point is very well taken. While we all remain hopeful this will serve to explain/clarify the glaring records/serial number disconnect, unfortunately there is only so much wishful theorizing one can do in an attempt to otherwise legitimize it. Regards, slava1stclass

Herr Zulus, Unless you've assumed another person's identity, Fred has been a member of the "other" Soviet awards forum for quite some time. Here's his homepage as listed on the other forum: http://www.mobilkomaustria.com/CDA/framese...html-en,00.html He's in your own backyard. Regards, slava1stclass

Mondvor, Concur. I suggested this approach very early on in this thread. Herr Zulus has apparently ordered further research to help bring this rather unusual case to closure - hopefully for the better. Regards, slava1stclass

To all: Other than the outstanding discrepancy regarding the serial number for his Order of Glory 1st Class, I would tend to agree. All the remaining features of this Full Cavalier set appear true. In reviewing G's Special Awards Record Card, it is clear the late award of his Glory 1st was due to an earlier, erroneous double award of the Order of Glory 2nd Class. This error wasn't corrected until 29 December 1980 when the order for his Glory 1st was issued in Moscow. Just a little less than two months later - on 20 February 1981 - he was issued his Full Cavalier awards booklet (and presumably his Order of Glory 1st Class) when summoned to his local military commissariat in Kharkov. So the question then becomes one of why the serial number for the Order of Glory 1st class in his possession (and annotated in his Full Cavalier booklet) i.e., s/n 1965 differs from that recorded on his Special Awards Record Card, i.e. s/n 3646. As the majority of the critical elements of a Full Cavalier Booklet were filled out/completed in Moscow (only the recipient's personal photograph, official military commissariat stamp and date the booklet was issued were added/penned in at the local level) the error (if in fact true) occurred in Moscow. This then begs the question of how this could have occurred given his Special Awards Record Card clearly indicates his Glory 1st should have serial number 3646. Are we to assume the official government calligrapher in Moscow designated to fill out Full Cavalier Booklets somehow got it wrong? Possible, though unlikely. He/she had to be working off of some sort of official documentation when filling in G's Full Cavalier Booklet. It is possible G's Uchyotnaya Kartochka will shed more light on this. If this, too, lists his Glory 1st s/n as 3646, "We've got a problem Houston." Hope this helps. P.S. As for Full Cavalier Booklet serial numbers being listed on the Special Awards Record Card, I'll need to do some checking and will let you know. Regards, slava1stclass

To all: Considering that he wasn't especially tall and in not particularly good health, maybe they decided to make an exception and cut this guy some slack. Is this awarding in concert with the established regs for bestowing the Order of Glory? Absolutely not. Is this a classic example of the "watering down" that often occurs in a given Army's awards system at certain points in time? Absolutely. Nice example. Thank you. Regards, slava1stclass

To all: The Full Cavalier Special Awards Card may also be obtained through an archival research request. The advantage of using PMD's service in this instance rests squarely in its much quicker turn around time. If one is willing to wait, however, all the applicable research documents may be obtained through the archives. It appears Herr Zulus has opted for the archives route. Hopefully he has requested the full range of research documentation. As stated in one of my earlier posts in this thread, information contained in the archives should serve to bring closure to this case. Regards, slava1stclass

Chris, With or without "V" device? Regards, slava1stclass

To all: From one Jesuit-educated person to another, the logic of the argument is pure. They sure tained us well. Regards, slava1stclass

Sehr geehrter Herr Zulus, For a cost of $50.00, Mr. Paul McDaniel offers a service that will fax you a copy of Gnitienko's Full Cavalier Special Award Record Card. Should you so elect, you would most certainly be guaranteed speedy resolution of this case. Check out: http://www.historicalresearch.com/cavalier.html We look forward to your report on your findings. Regards, slava1stclass

Ed, Thank you for asking. My sourcing is based on material/documentation from the archives at Podolsk - the purest form of primary research. Regards, slava1stclass

To all: Now available at a well-known NYC-area dealer. This would be a textbook example of a Category 1 Full Cavalier set were it not for the fact the Order of Glory 3rd Class is a substitute for the original and the Cavalier Booklet lacks a date for when it was presented to the winner. The S/N for the Glory 1st is #11. What is even more uncommon (as noted in post # 1 above) is that the grouping also includes his Ordenskaya Knizhka. Asking Price: $13,500. Regards, slava1stclass

Ed, No problem. We're here to help one another. Regards, slava1stclass

To all: Ed is a somewhat off. The actual number of Orders of Glory 1st Class awarded is in the 2,500-2,600 range. Whereas Order of Glory 1st Class with serial number 3743 may have been the highest recorded serial number for an awarded Order of Glory 1st Class, the actual number of Full Cavaliers of the Order of Glory is in the 2,500 to 2,600 range. Regards, slava1stclass