VC89

Thanks Jef.

Thanks to S. Astill (Curator – Military Collections, Exhibitions and Special Projects of the South West Heritage Trust (www.swheritage.org.uk)) who gave me this response: "Somerset became the temporary home to many Belgian refugees fleeing their country following the German attack of August 1914. Committees were set up in towns across the county to raise funds to support the refugee families during their stay. This medal as awarded to people who supported the committee in Taunton through fundraising or other charity work." Vincent

Thanks for the replies. The e-mail is on the way and when I receive a respons I will let you know. Vincent

I recently received this medal but I'm unable to find more information about it. It has a ribbon in the Belgian colors but the design feels British. My best guess is that it is an unofficial medal given to those involved with the aid of Belgians (possibly refugees) in England (Taunton, Somerset?). All information about this medal or this Belgian Committee is welcome. Kind regards,Vincent

The "Carte du Feux" (or Vuurkaart, Firecard) was created by Royal Decree on 14 may 1932 and was awarded to Belgian soldiers who served at least 12 months in an unit that was in contact with the enemy. This time could be reduced to 9 months in certain situations. So to answer your first question: it was created by the Belgian government. The "Golden Book of the Firecard" was first published in 1933 or 1934 and contains the names of those who held the "firecard". It is not complete because the holders must send an application if they wanted to be mentioned in the book. If I'm not mistaken they received this personilized medal when they buy the book. The difference between real ones and fake, I can not tell you. But since this medal is not very expensive (25-30 euros in Belgium) I would not worry about it too much. I have seen silver(ed) ones but I don't know if they are reproductions or custom made by the recipient. Maybe they can help you on the website www.yser.eu. Unfortunately it is only in dutch but you can send them an e-mail. Your medal belonged to soldier Armand -L.-F.C. Le Roye who served with the 12th regiment of the line. He is mentioned in the 1937 edition of the "Golden Book of the Firecard" pg. 191 (with picture). He had 5 frontstripes, received the Warcross with palm, Victory Medal and Commemorative Medal of the War 1914-1918. All this can be found on the website Guy mentioned: click on "goldebooks online" -> "1937" -> and then search page 191 (he's on the top row, second picture). NOTE that it also says "Ostend". This might be his place of birth but it is not certain since the placed mentioned is the place they lived when they applied for the book. Example: My great-grandfather was born in Haacht but "Zaventem" is mentioned because he lived there at that time. Vincent

60 years ... that must be a hell of a collection you got. I hope you can find the medal and many other "hidden" or "lost" teasures . Don't feel shy to share the rare or uncommon ones with us . Vincent

@922F You spoke about seeing cased ones in 1994. Do you, by any chance, remember the box it was in. Mine came in a red one with a crown on it (J. Fonson) and I presume this is not the original box but one for the Order of the Crown. But since I haven't seen a cased example of this medal I can't be certain. Vincent

Is this the veteran's medal that you mean? If they did use this it should be easy to recognize. According to an article by Borné it was created by the National Union of Military Veterans of Leopold II (wich was founded in 1947). Vincent

According to Borné this medal was created by King Leopold III by Decree on 10 may 1934, aiming to award those who served Albert I, who died on 17 january 1934. It was awarded to those who served in the royal households of Albert I and/or queen Elisabeth (1909-1934) and/or the households when they were the Count and Countess of Flanders (1905-1909). So it might be possible that they were all awarded during the month may of 1934, since no one could qualify after that date. Unfortunately Borné does not mention it. Vincent

Picture 1 is the front of the medal and the "A" is the revers. (If this is what you mean). I'm very interested in the difference between a copy and a real one (and if possible, the documentation or source of it) since I have the medal in my collection. (see pics) Vincent

The uniform(s) with ribbons ... the medals ... the documents ... and all of the same person Now I'm jealous As for the regulations ... it doesn't suprise me that an officer (or a soldier) doesn't know them. We are medal enthusiasts here and we have trouble knowing what medal comes before an other. And to be honest, I don't think anyone in Belgium really cares (exept us). Most of the Royal Decrees that create a medal that I've seen just state: "The medal comes directly behind ..." or "... comes after all medals already existing". So first you have to find all Royal Decrees and then you must puzzle them into a list The only full list that I found was one created by a medal collector (Hendrik Meerschaert) on his website www.medals.be, but this site is down . Vincent

I don't think so. The hierarchy should be: National Orders (with their own hierarchy, wich is correct in this picture) Medals of the two World Wars and the Korean War Militray Decoration (article 4) [10th in this picture. It could be that this medal precede also the war medals but I'm not sure.] Military Cross Military Decoration [...] Foreign Medals (in chronological order as they are received) Question to the members of the Belgian Army: Since I haven't served in the Belgian Army I wonder if it is possible to serve at least 10 years as a soldier or NCO (Military Decoration 2nd class) and than, at least, 25 years as an officer (Military Cross 1st class)? Here are some usefull links for this matter: (all are in Dutch, last two can be translated in English, German and French on the top left) http://www.orderofleopold.be/nl/deco01.php (Dutch) http://www.orderofleopold.be/en/deco01.php (English) Below: Can be translated in English by clicking "En" on the top left. http://diplomatie.belgium.be/nl/Diensten/Protocol/nationale_orden/het_dragen_van_binnen-_en_buitenlandse_eretekens http://diplomatie.belgium.be/nl/Diensten/Protocol/nationale_orden/hierarchie (Hierarchy of the National Orders) Vincent

They should be, although exeptions can be granted due to courtesy. But note that in this case the Belgian medals are not correct worn either. It should be (foreign medals exluded): Officer cross's (Order of Leopold, Order of the Crown and Order of Leopold II), War Cross, Yser medal, Firecross, Victory Medal, Commemorative Medal of the War 14-18, Military Cross. I'm not sure if he should wear the cross of officer in the Order of Leopold, Order of the Crown and Order of Leopold II since he has higher decoration of those orders. In my opinion the crossed swords (on the ribbon of the cross of Officer in the Order of Leopold II) should be on the sash of the Grand Cross of the Order of Leopold II, his highest decoration. Vincent

If you (ever) find one you may let me know :). You find some medals on one website, a few others on an other website, forums, ... . There are just so many unofficial medals in Belgium that it is very hard (or even impossible) to make such a website. There was once a website with a lot of them but he quitted because many of the information and pictures were used without his approval. He still (or at least a few years ago) awnsered questions by e-mail. See his website: http://users.skynet.be/belgian.medals/index.html. Maybe he can help you. Vincent

I found it on an other, french, forum http://www.passionmilitaria.com/t110908-medaille-du-groupe-athos (Stuka you beat me by a minute :)) It's a medal from the Athos group (a Belgian resistance group).

Personally I would not worry. Belgian medals are usually made by many manufacturers (Fonson, Degreef, Wolfers, ....) and they usually show some small difference (this ball might be one of them). Some of these medals in my collection have a bigger ball suspension than the other ones. There are some hard to find types of this Belgian medal but I don't see the marks of Alexander Leisek (LA) of Edward Riemer (R) (two Czechoslovakian makers). Does it have a triangle stamp or "Made in France" on de rim? I can not guarantee that nobody has made fake medals of a Belgiam Victory Medal but since this one is very common in Belgium and can be bought for a price between 5 and 10 euro (with ribbon) I think it must be a big scaled forgery if someone wants to make a lot of money with it. I would choose an other medal to fake This said James P. Michels Jr. states in his book "Wolrd War I Victory Medals" (expanded edition, 2016) that there is a reproduction of this medal with a "a reddish color, possibly copper." (pg. 180). Unfortunatly he gives no information where he found this information. Since bronze is an alloy of copper and tin it is possibly that the manufacturer used a little more copper than others, hence the reddisch color (although the color on the pictures looks fine to me). The 36 mm is the right diameter. Vincent

Never seen it before but if I must guess I would be: Federatie Verbroedering Belgische OologsVrijwilligers 40-45 (Dutch) - Fédération Fraternelles du Volontaires de Guerre Belge 40-45 (French) (Englisch: Federation Fraternization of Belgian War Volunteers 40-45). It may fit with the British helmet om the medal, since Belgian war volunteers enlisted in the British Army. Does the medal show something on the reverse? Vincent

This arrived in my mailbox today. The medal in it was the Belgian War Cross 1940-1945 (with palm "LIIIL") but it seems strange to me that the box has the monogram of King Albert I while the medail is from the reign of King Leopold III. I'm thinking (or hoping :-) ) in the direction of Royal Household Decorations in which the "O" means "OR" (French for gold). The "O" is also the first letter of the Dutch name for the War Cross (Oorlogskruis) but if it is the box for a War Cross from the First World War, I think I should have found it already or at least seen it before. Which is not the case. So if anyone have seen this box or know more about it, feel free to share :-) By the way: The box is from Gustave Wolfers.

Widow (Vve, veuve) of Fernand Heremans? I can't find anything about it ... i have searched in the almanac of the city of Brussels but can't find it at this adress. Since the street (Avenue Emile Verhaeren) was build in 1907-1908 it can not be earlier.

Nice medal. I never have seen them with the date of the royal decree. Here are some of my rare or uncommen pieces: 1&2: Agricultural Decoration 2nd class (green wreath), only French and maker on the back (A. Fisch Bruxelles) 3: Miniature Agricultural Decoration, 2nd class 4: 1st & 2nd class Agricultural Decoration, French and Dutch 5: 2nd class Industrial Decoration, French only 6: 1st and 2nd class Industrial Decoration, Dutch only (unofficial) 7&8: 2nd Class Industrial Decoration with maker mark on the back (Auguste Fonson) 9: Box of medal in picture 7&8 10&11: three 2nd class Industrial Decorations with maker marks (A. Fisch (x2) and Fonson & C.), the middle one is unfinished. 12: Three Women versions of the Industrial Decoration 2nd class 13: Industrial Decoration awarded after a mortal accident at work (Unless I'm mistaken it should always be 1st class) 14&15: A more modern Industrial Decoration with engraved name (it aren't always old ones :))

The national association of former POW [[ NVOK: Nationale Vereniging van Oud-Krijgsgevangenen (Dutch) or FNAPG: Fédération Nationale de Ancien Prisonnier de Guerre (French) ]] uses this symbol as their logo and it is on many of their medals. In is my believe that we should think in this direction and that it was worn and/or distibuted by them. Your pin is should be from pre-1955, since this year till 2000 the adress of P. Degreef was "Rue de Midi 112-114". I looked it up at the almanac of the city of Brussels and since the edition of 1955 they uses 112-114 as their house number. In the edition of 1954 it is only 112. Here is my example of a piece with 112-114 on the back.

Hi Farmer, Thanks for sharing all your knowledge with us. I didn't knew that about the longer swords, that they are used (officially) since 1905. Where did you find that information? I looked in some of the books I posses but I can't find it anywhere. Same at the internet (except in this topic). Vincent

Thanks Odin and Lukaz @Lukaz: Are there variatons in color with these ribbons? The "Six Day War" and the "Sinai Campaign" ribbons seems to have a different color than the ones I can google. While the "Sinai Campaign" ribbon should have red between the dark and light blue it has the same color as the sides (a orange/flesh-like color) and the "Six Day War" has no red at both sides. I looked at the back of the ribbons (that is not exposed to the light) and it looks more or less the same as the color in the front, a little lighter but not the red it should be. Also, is it possible that these three Israeli medals belonged to one man (or woman)? I noticed that that these ribbons have traces of rust on the back so they might be from the same medal bar, since no other ribbon in this lot has it.

Thanks again. Are you sure about the RN Auxiliary Medal? When I google it I get a different ribbon.

Thank you very much, dante, for the quick reaction. Whas it common that a British received the order of the nile? And do you know the four on the last photo as well? It seem that I forgot a photo as well: Unfortunatly there are some ribbons missing. I only need the one on the first line, the others I was able to find.