saschaw

Massive wreath where none should be and a clasp you're still missing... :rolleyes:

That's odd. In the meantime I came to know the medal bar came from the same collector I have my ribbon bar from. A small world, as I said. I guess I swap the ribbon bar for another one, for a small reunification. Thanks for your tries, Rick. The BZ3bX is replaced, I came to know. He did not mention the medal, but I'll ask... Is there a published list of BZ4? Or do you mean BZ4M?

Finally, and not by me, the bar got "killed". The ribbons re-appeared on eBay.de, while the empty bar most likely will be recycled. With this seller, I have no doubts it will happen. He formally used the name "hagekna41", and now is "agle42"... and to say it again, the bar was a funny put-together. No problems about killing it. Just to show how small world is. http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...em=320377814602

I guess Daniel has a picture of this Lt dL II Paul Richter. Did you made it up to Richter, alphabetically, and might I find him in the left ones from R to Z? Or have you done this in the meantime?

The 1st one is crap without a doubt, with the other ones I'm not sure.

Hum, seems to be a more difficult one? Thanks in advance, Rick! Very good point I ignored...

It's a small world in the end, isn't it? This one came up today in a German forum, and I realized we were a bit wrong. That's why ribbon bar questions sometimes just cannot be answered! I looked through the very nice Hohenzollern volume but could not find him immediately... Now anyone who can find him? The medal bar owner would be very glad too.

Mooore... :cheers:

I finally found closer information on MVKs 3rd modell in Orden-Militaria-Magazin #41, June 1991. On peace time ribbon, there were awarded up to August 1914: MVK 1st class with the crown: 6 MVK 1st class: 9 MVK 2nd class with the crown: 39 MVK 2nd class: 59 MVK 3rd class with the crown: 6 MVK 3rd class: none (sic!) Oddly, there were three more awarded in war time on peace time ribbon: MVK 1st class: 2 MVK 2nd class with the crown: 1 And, what I never had heard of before, Beamte did get the crosses without swords on "Kriegsverdienst" ribbon (but that was the so-called "Beamtenband"!) between August 1914 and July 26th 1915. This adds: MVK 1st class with the crown: 26 MVK 1st class: 367 MVK 2nd class with the crown: 475 MVK 2nd class: 177 MVK 3rd class with the crown: 71 MVK 3rd class: 24. With decree from 26th july 1915, those Beamte were entitled to get swords for their crosses, and we can assume most did get these, as they meant "in front of the enemy decorated". I have hardly ever seen a real MVK 3rd modell issue without swords (well, now we know why), but the article shows two crosses 2nd class - both real silver. I don't know when they did change but, well... not all at Nimmergut's opus magnum is correct. I'd rather not buy a Alpacca silvered 3rd modell 2nd class without swords. You might add swords (or rather a cross with swords, if you believe in the cross) and this is a very, very nice bar. :catjava:

Hey, I just realized... match! Now I really hope it's unique and identifiable.

There are only about 50 awards known of the Lübeck cross to Württembergers. I can rule some out for your bar as their rank does not match, but as I have no list of WgMVM recipients I cannot come down to one - but I guess others can... very nice bar!

One more device for Mr. Rick. A rather standard one, on a Austrian's post Anschluss bar:

I guess I just need someone who tells me EXACTELY what to do there, and what would be really needed... peace time Z?hringer migth have nicer rolls, I cannot imagine that insane unusefull list has been used ever since... :banger:

Sorry, I did not get that. Do you agree or disagree when I say the 2nd model is proper while the 3rd model seems to have its swords lost or removed? I hardly doubt this is a real but misplaced 2nd class of 3rd modell... is it real silver? Those 1913 models without swords are amungst the rarest Bavarian decorations. Don't want to intend it cannot be just as it's rare, but on a altered (see long service award) medal bar...

From what I understand this ribbon with swords is actually for the house order (never seen a wreath in Lippe), but that misplaced it may well be for the military merit medal, using a non matching ribbon. The right ribbon for the medal had yellow, not gold sides.

Very nice group, however I have to claim that the 3rd modell MVK had swords, almost sure. It is not on peace time ribbon, and if it were I guess it should replace the 2nd class of 2nd model. But yet, this alone is makes it a great bar! Had my MVK2/2 for years and it was hard to give it away... Might the ribbon on the Ehrenkreuz be one for the Kyffh?userbund medal? They sometimes swapped only the medals and continued to wear then non matching ribbons.

Not epsonized, but still god enough, I hope... finally a nice oaks device for Baden. :rolleyes:

Thanks, Mr. Research and Mr. Museum! Those are really not the nicest paperworks around. At least I think so. have never seen anything else for 1870/71, but on the other hand, I think I have not seen many... I think I even saw this one before - Mr. Museum has recently been to Kirchheim, right?! :rolleyes:

By coincidence a four place frack bar? That is not a Jerusalem but a "Pro Ecclessia Et Pontifice" merit cross. I assume he was some clerical, especially with those non-combattant WWI awards. Very nice bar and uncommon combination.

On pre 1920 EKs and WBs?! I'd rather say 1930s and have never seen them on anything earlier. Evil Rick, do you have pictures of an pre 1920 EK with a screw disk like this?

/signed. And a very nice bar, by the way.

Hmm yes, I remember your nightmare group... and some else... with BZ3*XE and a Lippe order... but the day will come. If you're right and it is an OK2... might my bar be with a KO4w to a desktop hero, but in enemy's area (and so with black ribboned EK2). I think that makes most sense as he indeed looks very Prussian. Cannot be a "Foreigner" with pre war KrVMw. And does not look like a colonial award with missing X devices. Hmm... a stupid bar, anyway. :catjava:

Jason, do you mean the steel medal on combattant ribbon? Have seen it about 300,000 times. Absolutely no problem about it. :cheers:

Two bars with questions don't make a question thread, and while I posted my three HOH3X/BZ3*X/OK2 in the HOH3X thread, I have to concur here with something else. I did think about it but didn't become any wiser from. I think that's one of the oddest I've ever seen - or is it me just blind?! Black/white ribbon in #1 should be an EK2 1914, #2 has to be L?beck Hanseaten cross, #3 is a white/black ribbon, #4 a blue long service ribbon and #5 looks like OK2 for non-combattants or W?rttemberg long service award. Preu?e or W?rttemberger... ? If it were a W?rttemberger's bar I'd suppose #3 to be a pre-war Prussian KrVM - but there is nothing else from W?rttemberg which makes me wonder what the last ribbon is, especially as #4 is yet an long service award... Any ideas?! :catjava:

Once more to top with this thread. I still have not found the guy of my medal bar, but have a simple question: what grade of Chilean merit order is this? I'd say it is an "officer's cross", but rank list only gives CV1/2/3...