saschaw

And an extremly crude 3rd class, single mounted - not enemaled but cast and painted. Not nice, but rar. Anyone knows those... ?

Ah, you got that one. Nothing special - but a nice one. For a pre 1900 NCO bar this is almost as good as it can get. I have (and have seen) many, really many that were worse. This one is still quite good. SPM's right, as he was a EM or NCO he cannot have had a cross but a clasp. Those generic groups are mostly see with the Reserve/Landwehr clasp (hardly seen the enemaled version) and somewhat rarer with military long service awards. Attached my "standard" enemaled private purchase for Reserve/Landwehr.. :rolleyes:

The picture indeed is poor, but I'm not even sure if I like that SWA medal... it has a "strange" looking... :speechless:

With the three known, are you counting my one? That from George is now in my father's collection as you know. You don't have by coincidence the name to that bar, do you? I think I asked before... Baden Ged?chtnismedaille 1849?! Then he should have a long service award. But, for Baden Felddienstauszeichnung he almost "should" be a Badener. Have seen one non-Badener with that (Graf von Werder, if I remember correctly), and never seen a Badener who saw action in 1864... but I saw a Prussian who saw combat in 1864 and 1870/71 - but not in 1866! Unlikely, but possible. Ribbon bar portraits are just driving me crazy. I have as well some, but no idea what they're wearing... :speechless:

Well, as a Karlsruher this is exciting enough for me. Never seen a tag by Goldfarb before. Though, this is most likely not an officer's but a NCO's bar with long service award. And, with a Karlsruhe tag he was most likely from Palatinate, not from "real" Bavaria. On a ribbon bar or at all? If the latter, I hope I can dig something up for you... BUT... is that the Coat of Arms of the UNITED KINGDOM?! :speechless1:

Many thanks for all opinions and comments. No, not a 1861 medal. I think I've never seen that to a Badener. A solid yellow ribbon on a Baden bar is for a civil merit medal, or for Prussian 1897 medal - but with that hanger it cannot be something else but a Baden CMM. Well, that is a little bit something different, but still, I get your point and it won't be changed, at least for the moment. By the way, as it's from my father's collection this is not my decision at all... 😜 Hmm, it will remain great and unique, what ever I could do. I think if I'll ever get a name for it done and get to know when (and so which) merit medal he - who then has a name - had, it will rather be changed... but we'll see...

I still absolutely do not like the bar from #7 as I felt and said before, just some weeks ago. Right backing plate is not enough, there might be fake bars on real backing plates... do the ribbons glow? They almost do without black light... ;o(

A "Zieten" oberst... should be quite easy for the guys... Please don't forget to name that last award on the bar, I'm totally lost there. Thanks Gentlemen. ;)

Your SecLt dL HERRMANN from LIR 111 must be the Fabrikant from Karlsruhe, in DOA 1904 with BdZL3bX, D70/71 and PrZM. Unlikely to be him without BdZL3aE and PrRKM3. I found a GRUMBACHER who's not listing an BdZL3bX but BdZL3a, BdFDA, BdS(sic!)ErZ1870/71, BdRJM, D70/71 and PrZM. Odd, should be "your" guy, isn't it? Otto, Rechtsanwalt beim Ober-Landesgericht, born 1848 and living in Karlsruhe, Akademiestraße... not him. An Adalbert BAUMANN, Oberbaurat, again no BdZL3bX, but BdZL3aE, BdFDA, D1870/71, PrEK2, PrLD2, PrZM - but a Württemberg crown order 2c and an Austrian merit cross... Absolutely not him, but an odd and interresting combination. Once more BAUMANN, now a Karl: Gymnasialproffesor with BdZL3a, BdFDA and PrLD2 - who foolishly again misses half of his stuff. Had for sure additional "D70/71" and "PrZM". Sure, not him. Actually I don't know why I'm listing him... DREHER is as well in 1904/05, there yet without BdRJM - though awarded at least a year before he sent his informations to the DOA people... Missing oaks and the PrRKM3. Might be him, who knows... Though, alive in 1908 doesn't fit to our guy who might have been passing away in 1905. If he did. Now Mayer...

Thank you, Rick. The DOA is such a bad reference, though the one and only for much stuff... Did many miss to notice the Oaks on their Z?hringer?! At least "my" Major Uhlenhaut (other bar) missed to. No idea how many did that mistake. Surely many didn't mention Baden and or Prussian 1870 medal, or 1902 jubilee. Anyway, I guss any Baden ex-officer alive in 1902 get that. Not all pictures are undated: the oldest one has "2. Oct. 87" on it's back while the bar pictures is from 1905. The others seem all to be pre 1895 as there's nothing on 1870 medal's ribbon, and - did anyone notice he had his bar resewn between the CDV and the two big ones? No new awards on the bar, though a change from trapzoid ribbon to bow ribbons - makes the CDV the older one. With the oldest picture being from 1887, not much space for the time frame for the three undated pictures - but that's no help at all as at this point, he's not in anymore rank list, presumably disappering in the end 70s. I'm quite sure about infantry: that the Baden infantry officer saber and the helmet (if all gilt) is Baden infantry officer too - the Waffenrock seems to match either. Pionier-Bataillon 14 hat the same helmet (but all silver), but another Wafenrock while any other Waffengattung would have different helmets. Not much help... so he's one of the guys you mentioned or even disappeared pre 1879 from the rank lists, right? PS: is all that you're listing from 1908 DOA? We were thinking he might have died in 1905... PPS: NONE of those guys with BdZL3bX should have an BADEN LW - those were introduced in 1877 and given to NCOs only! Presumably one more mistake...

I think there is... Wild Card, no problem and no offense. Just good here are more than just one people. ;)

I tried in the DOA 1904/05 and it was at least worth a try. I cross-checked BdZL3bX, BdFDA and BdRJM 1902 from Willi Geile's register of uncommon mentioned awards - those three are the only listed ones there from this group. I ended at nine persons (well, actually nine pages of the DOA) and checked those, but found noone that matches. The last entry was the closest, the only one with PrRKM3 - but to a Medizinalrat with EK2w and a Russian award. As well, not "my" guy. Buuut... as we all know, not only many persons are missing in the DOA, some just mentioned some of their awards, "forgetting" stuff like jubilee medals. There might come times I have nothing to do and could check all BZL3bX, ignoring if they are listing BdRJM... :cheers:

That's for Anhalt's "Friedrichkreuz", a WWI award and so-called EK II equivalent.

WOW! Now that is a bar. Thank you for digging up the pictures, Wild Card. I think I've never before seen such an old civil merit medal mounted before... PS: I found a Major a.D. Karl Spörin living in Hirschstraße 29 in Karlsruhe in 1891. May well be him... Now back to our bar: the thread is old, but I don't know how old. The 1849 "Brudermordmedaille" is fixed on a Carl Friedrich ribbon at the wrong place, fixed at the same time and with the same thread as the miniatures are. I cannot imagine it was done live time and worn like this. Keep in mind, there's one of his awards, and actually the "highest" one missing! But with action in 1848 and alive in 1902 to get the jubilee medal, he might have died presumably in about 1910 to 1920, at a age of 80 to 90 years. If we asuume he had a father and he had as well a son, both being soldiers, those two may be the origin of the two additional Felddienstausezichnungen: one for Napoleonic wars, the other one for 1866 and 1870/71. Or both from sons, whatever. We're thinking about to change or not to change for more than a year now and I actually would like to. All could be done very quickly and without any questions but replacing the first medal: that would need to know what issue as it may be litterally anything. I don't think anyone here has the list handy, does someone?! If not, I might try it at our archives... and with the name, one should get to know when he was given the silver merit medal: weather in 1850 or in 1880 or in 1905... Restore as worn or keep as what the ignorant family later made of it? I really accepts and appreciate your opinions on it and as well would not change a bar that has been worn by the recipient like this - but this one wasn't, I'm almost sure.

Nice bar, thanks for showing! I don't know what "OEK" you're using, but my Nimmergut OEK lists it at 640,- Euro for the silver gilt WWI issue. However, a nice bar and I wish I could afford it...

Thanks gentlemen for your nice words. It would be really great if someone finds pictures of the group from the former Ludvigsen collection. I'm aware of three more medals by now: one in a museum in Freiburg, one in the WGM in Rastatt and one more in a private collection here in Germany - but none more mounted one. In Orden Militaria-Magazin 40 from about 1990 there was one engraved medal in a mounted group shown, but that was a common medal with additional engravement. As the wearer (who also got silver and gold grade of the Karl Friedrich medal!) is not on the list for the 1848 medal, it is very likely he was awarded it later. Noone seems to know when or how. And yes, it seems there indeed is a list. Maybe I can get that, and maybe I can even get a name for that bar... Please, could you give me any advice regarding the little mess on the bar? The bar was for sure not worn like this. The two common "Felddienstauszeichnungen" should be removed, the "Brudermordmedaille" put to it's correct ribbon, the miniatures removed, then all would be fine. Then, still the first medal is missing: a civil) merit medal, but I have no idea what issue - could be merely anything from 1848 to 1902 era...

The bar is a bit messed with, I think we're going to fix that at some point. Still, the main medal is right and in it's right place: the engraved Felddienst-Auszeichnung for the actions in 1848, with exactly 50 medals awarded for the battles at "Freiburg", "Staufen", "Kandern" and "Güntersthal". Four different engravings, and 50 is the total for all. Does anyone know another mounted piece? I have non seen by now...

No, no "bling bling" at all. No Gold, not even much silver. Just mostly bronce. Still, the (at least in my humble opinion) best medal bar from my father's collection and I didn't want to miss to show it at least in the "old year", as I now forgot to show it for quite a time: it's living with us for more than a year, after it came up on eBay.com in August 2007 and went home from the U.S. to Baden. So now here it is and I hope you like it... Wild Card, do you? I think so... It's absolutely nothing exciting at first view. Just take a second one.

I'm not sure if there's a English translation of Hessenthal und Schreiber. Finally I looked it up there, there's written exactly what I thought and wrote. I might quote tomorrow, if someone wants it literally. Anyone interrested, please take a look at HuS 1324 and 1324a.

Thank you, Glenn! :cheers:

And he sold exactly none of his lots. NONE, not one single... :cheers: You might e-mail him, maybe you get them now for 85,- euro each. ;)

Very nice one, yes. Thanks for showing, Komtur. Though, it is not necessary pre-1934. Both WWI awards were given to civilians etc., so he may well have been no soldier and this bar may date in post 1934. Again, a "Glaubenssache". I have no Godet medal bar by now... :speechless:

The combination is odd, but I like it. Rather an Oldenburger in a Bavaraian unit than a Bavarian in the Navy as he would have gotten a Prussian long service award. Or a Bavarian who got no MVK from his own king... ?

Here's one more, unfortunally not from Hannoverian but "only" a Prussian: Oberleutnant Kreuzwendedich von Waldow, LGR 8 with his 1870/71 Albrecht3X. Quite funny christian name, have it as well from Glenn's EK list...

Sound like I did work with the wrong list...