saschaw

Yes, I think the same and won't risk it. By the way, it was rather in 2005 or 2006.

Hmm, I found old pictures from before the fool changed the device somewhere on my hard disc ...

Here are some questions, but no feedback? I've got no idea what the button is for, if I'm right about what is on the 1866 ribbon bar (and "bar") and if those old ribbons may belong together, making it rather an Baden house order than a 1849 medal ...

eitze, congratulation, that was a steal. I almost bought it, but as it isn't my metier ... Did you _ask_ the seller if he still has the other one? You could aswell ask the guy from MFF, who may be someone else ... that larger has to be somewhere and the guy who split them is a

Yes! That's why I pushed this old thread up again ...

Just to keep this guy in mind: he's back again ... http://cgi.ebay.de/Ordensspange-Deutsches-...1QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.de/Grosse-Ordensspange_W0Q...1QQcmdZViewItem None of those is good, I'd say ...

Yes, things like these were available in the 30s for those who had anough money. This one I saw on eBay some months ago, even more weird ...

Yes, the other one was less ugly, as far as I remember. What an idiot ... such a nice and rare bar, "played with" on its boring part for no use ... The first one might be interresting for comparing both rolls, as soon as the BZL4 gets complete. I don't think many got both, may be identyfiable? Please don't do it yet, as soon as I'm in training this I should take a look for my own stuff.

The second one is on a 1938/1945 tab back bar ... it used to came up on eBay in a lot, I was outbid and later bought it from the former buyer. This rotten fool seems to have changed the device on the Treudienst-Ehrenzeichen, no idea why or what for. Is the current device a "bad" one?! I think so, 'cause if it isn't the exchange is even more senseless ...

Here are the devices I promised to scan for you, finally came to it: the first one for BZL4 is on a 1920s bar, at least pre 1934. It has a quite uncommon swords device for an additional BZL3bX that you might like to add to you article as well, futhermore a sewn on device for the Deutsche Ehrendenkm?nze (next answer, not enough space for all three here):

Stogieman, I'm sure it is a BZL4 ribbon, but I'm not sure if it really supposed to stand for this award ... Christophe, many thanks: I think without knowledge if this really is a peace time BZL4 in last place one cannot get further. I actually don't know if it is from a officer from FR40, but those are very likley with a Hohenzollern-Baden combination. Were there any other regiments with that?

Ah ja - thanks Michael, makes perfectly sense and now that I know, I even recognize the decoration. Thanks to all for the help, with combined knowledge almost any mystery can be solved.

And one more question and problem: I'm still am not sure what awards this Godet-button might be for. It's green with red, and came with the "bar", the W?rttemberg grand cross ribbon rest, the Frankfurt 1813 ribbon, the Baden house order ribbon (which I didn't get) - so it may be anything. What grade might such a rosette be used for in Germany?

101% the same ribbons, but as a "bar" without bar - and less worn, if worn at all. This is the one I bought years ago on eBay.de with the ribbons I yet showed, now they bars are reunited.

Hey, no comments or ideas on these? I'm not too much into this old stuff, so I need your help, pleeeeeease ... Here is the real Hessian ribbon bar from about 1866 to 1870 era I bought in 2007 from Mr. Winkler. What are the awards? I came to: - Hessen, Felddienstzeichen; - Hessen, Ludewigsorden, Ritterkreuz; - Hessen, Philippsorden, Ritterkreuz; - ?sterreich, war ribbon, but what for? - ?sterreich, Orden der Eisernen Krone III. Klasse. Is this a possible combination? I wonder the Felddienstzeichen outranks the orders, but if the medal was handled as a 'war award' and the orders were peace time, they would outrank if one wears a very strikt "war awards first" bar. The same with the two Austrian ribbons: the OEK should outrank anything on the war ribbon that cames me to mind, thoug outranks the OEK3 ... PS: Rick, if you need anything for your article, feel free to use it. I think this is a rather interresting and incommon bar.

An absolutely bar. I knew this one before, as it came up some years ago at a German sellers homepage - and I always regreted I didn't buy - congratulations. I have no numbers but it seems to be much harder to find than the one without. The version with Kranz was given for merit "im Feindesland".

David, you were close but Leutwein (btw, that's the Kamerun guy I mentioned on the MFF) hit the point: 100 points for him. It's Willy Schultze in about 1918 in his Feldwebelleutnant uniform from J?ger-Battaillon Nr. 3 - with one of three English African General Service Medals awarded to German soldiers. He made it to Oberst in WWII and all information I have on him are taken from "BDOS Jahrbuch 2002", thanks to Mr. D?bel for this great article. By the way, Schultze later wore on his WWII medal bar the Prussian DAK, the Prussian Landwehr2 and the Wehrmacht 25 years award - in exactly this order. About the other photos ... Rick, the more I look at it I'm convinced you're right with the Saxon. Sorry for not believing in your word.

That sound's like autumn/fall job for dark long evenings, but it's son getting spring ... I'm absolutely not convinced this has to be a "short" bar. Zähringer without oak leaves is most likely Leutnant/Oberleutnant, what pre war awards should he have? No long service, not 1897 medal, even no 1902 medal if he startet service about 1903 or post. No pre war awards are the rule for a Baden officer with about ten years service in 1914. But the last ribbon, hmmm ... I've got an idea that I believe to be quite good: in 1909(?) the Grand Duke of Luxemburg made a visit to Karlsruhe, and as usual he left many orders here, even to Leutnants or Oberleutnants that had nothing by now and wouldn't get any more decorations untill the war starts - I think this is a "oak crown" close enough, seems much more likely than a civil/pre war Zähringer merit cross ... what do you think? *we had this issue with the Luxemburger on another bar from mine, which has Hohenzollern, Baden Karl Friedrich and Zähringer and nothing more from which one of the possible suspects could be excluded because of his pre war Luxemburg order. ** now tell me, am I good or am I bad?

Here my new bar, the typical combination of a Prussian 1849 veteran who fought in Baden. Actually pretty common, but as it wasn't usual to wears bars back than one doesn't see too many bars but rather single decorations.

Salut Gentlemen, I got this worn but nice old ribbon bar about two weeks ago (on 31st of january) from an old collector who had it in his drawer and isn't too much about ribbon bars, so I could get it for a good price ... It contains EK II, the knight's cross with swords of the (royal) Hohenzollern house order, a Ehrenkreuz with swords of the principal Hohenzollern house order and a Zähringer knight with X - which makes it look like a Leutant/Oberleutnant, maybe from FR 40 in Rastatt - but the last ribbon is for a Zähringer Verdienstkreuz, a NCO award that was given for e.g. 30 or 40 years NCO service in peace times. How can this make sense ... ? May he have gotten this for any civil (or) pre war merit, or might it rather be "close enough"?! I have no doubt on the bar itself, it's a nice war time or post war bar, pre 1934 with nice massive hook on reverse and well worn ... PS: please don't PM me on it as it won't be sold.

#6: again one I actually have no questions as I _know_ yet who he is and what he wears. I though leave it as a little quiz for you - may be someone knows, too. My new favorite picture, although it's blurry. I hate many pictures beeing like this as I know they might have been better. Think about the photos on which you can read the battle clasps ...

#5: no question from me, but some information for you: (Marine-)Kamerad M?gge died 27.II.1929 - a date that may be addable to some lists. The picture seems to be from some veteran association's archive. These photos were offered on eBay, I got two but he had more, offered with that bad pictures you didn't know what you're bidding for ...

#4: a civil person from Danmark or Norway, taken in Christiana wearing one single order. It's again a little blurry but may be recognizable for the gurus:

Thanks Gentlemen for your help. I thinkt Wild Card hit the point with three W?rttembergers on the photo from Stuttgart - but rather two civil merit medals or similar than the extremely rare Military one from these days?! Consider he doesn't wear a W?rttemberg Kriegsdenkm?nze which makes him a peace time ex-NCO. The picture by the way is though taken shortly after 1870 as it came with an identical photograph of his (presumably) son wearing the Prussian 1870/71 Kriegsdenkm?nze. Ulsterman, it's nice you want to see something from Baden, but it doesn't seem to be right. The son confirms it: if they were Badeners the son would wear two medals for 1870/71 action, nut just one. So no Baden connection, pity for me. Rick, I fear you're pretty wrong with a Saxon long service decoration on picture #3. I cannot recognize much of the medals, but take a look at the ribbons! I don't know them at all (so no German ribbons), but his uniform and even beard looks rather Russian. I may and should rather ask in the Russian section if here noones knows. The Bavarian officer is too blurry to tell anything, am I right?

One more, then I'll go to bed ... #3 is taken in Dresden (Saxony) but with a "142" on his shoulders he should be Baden infantry, so I think this is _not_ a German soldier, may rather be a Russian? Am I right with this and is it posible to recognize the awards? I think those are presumably nothing special, but who knows ... Thanks in advance Gentlemen, I pray you to get some feedback on those. I will then post some more - where these live there are even nicer ones, I guess ...